What is wrong with AJP?

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by honda06si

at this time im having no problems, ive had alot of problems but most everything has been fine tuned by me, and why it took so long is because this is my first turbocharged car...and honestly i dont have much patience..

anyways right now yes my boost gauge is jumping around from like 6-8-7-5 but it has been cold here, like in the 30's and 40's. so im guessing thats it, so i wont be able to tell until i get a warm day

Actually, esx005's boost gauge jumps around like that too and it's been about 60+ here the last couple of days. I've been kind of curious as to why this is and now that I know that you've got the same thing going it seems a little odd to me, to say the least.

Originally Posted by 2RotorMotor

Idle has nothing to do with how much boost he is running. If he is running 10.5 a/f @ idle then that is completely horrible.. As a matter of fact, if that is true, then it should be smoking really bad @ idle or wanting to stall out.. Idle a/f should be pretty much in the 20's.. Anyways, Im not sure how they tune the car, whether its with the map or maf(even though I think they said that @ WOT the car uses solely the map sensor) but it shouldnt matter how high they tune the car for, anything under that should be running fine.. I've tuned before than I can tell you from experience. Tuning is done through tables and you tune for the values of rpm or map.. Even though I have no idea how the tuning is done through the stock ecu, basically all ecus work in the same way...



If he is having problems with fuel then he needs to start checking his oil for the smell of gas.. Runing that rich gas can contaminate the oil which dillutes it and can cause cylinder scarring and other problems.. This should be taken care of before he makes any upgrades in boost...

I didn't mean to imply that upping the boost would help his a/f at idle, I was more talking about the fact that he has 650 injectors instead of the 630 that the car is tuned for. A short conversation was had with ajp about this and they themselves said this would make it run rich, but it was a precaution they took against it leaning out in any way. The only time it does lean out is in 6th, which is only used for economy so that doesn't bother me at all.
It's odd though because it's only at idle and even then it only is around 10.5 when he first starts it up. When it warms up a bit (about 5 bars) it still runs rich, but only around 11.4 or so. When under boost runs right around the same.. 11.4. I don't know what it would do with the 630 injectors, but I would think that difference in size would easily make up for the richness.


I think now would be a good time to make sure that everyone knows that I in no way claim to be a mechanic.. I'm learning about all of this as it happens with his car so any input is greatly appreciated (as long is it's not one line posts that say **** ajp, cuz that doesn't help at all).

[Omes]

Originally Posted by honda06si

that is the stupidest thing ive ever heard

Care to elaborate on why it's stupid for idle A/F ratios to be that high?

[blue1]

The running rich at idle was one of the reasons why I went with a different fuel pressure regulator. The Aeromotive 1000-6 (13109) regulator that is included with the AJP fuel return kit has a base fuel pressure that can be adjusted. The regulator then increases fuel pressure one psi for each psi of boost referenced.

Instead of getting this regulator, I went with the Aeromotive Pro-Series Boost Reference EFI Regulator (13110) that functions in the same manner as the 13109, but also references vacuum. For this regulator, if the vacuum in the intake is running at 16"HG, the reduction in fuel pressure from the base setting measured in PSI would be 1/2 of that or 8 PSI. The 13110 also has larger port sizes so I could run up to a 10AN return line if needed.

Since I am using a different regulator with the same reflash, I will be running more lean at idle (hopefully not too much) and the same as everyone else when running at 0 PSI or higher.

[blue1]

Free post.

[Ben10]

Originally Posted by firmhonda

Actually, esx005's boost gauge jumps around like that too and it's been about 60+ here the last couple of days. I've been kind of curious as to why this is and now that I know that you've got the same thing going it seems a little odd to me, to say the least.





I didn't mean to imply that upping the boost would help his a/f at idle, I was more talking about the fact that he has 650 injectors instead of the 630 that the car is tuned for. A short conversation was had with ajp about this and they themselves said this would make it run rich, but it was a precaution they took against it leaning out in any way. The only time it does lean out is in 6th, which is only used for economy so that doesn't bother me at all.
It's odd though because it's only at idle and even then it only is around 10.5 when he first starts it up. When it warms up a bit (about 5 bars) it still runs rich, but only around 11.4 or so. When under boost runs right around the same.. 11.4. I don't know what it would do with the 630 injectors, but I would think that difference in size would easily make up for the richness.


I think now would be a good time to make sure that everyone knows that I in no way claim to be a mechanic.. I'm learning about all of this as it happens with his car so any input is greatly appreciated (as long is it's not one line posts that say **** ajp, cuz that doesn't help at all).

I spoke with esx005 and he mentioned that he had reset his ecm as well as has not changed his plugs as of yet. He should be doing these few things over the next week or. But we have spoken with him / and are more than happy to speak with him if he calls again.

[Ben10]

The AEM tru-boost has to be set properly for it to work correctly. if you need info on that, anyone can contact AEM directly and get info how to use the tru-boost properly.

[esx005]

as said above i have spoke w/ajp and i will say it again they have benn very helpful and aswered every ? that i have had.i have not changed the plugs yet and i did reset the ecu.it should be done relearning the ecu in the next day or so and i plan on changing the plugs this weekend.as soon as i come up w/ money for dyno time i will post the results no matter what the outcome is.i am however very unfamiliar w/the aem tru boost and my boost does fluctuate.i have not mentioned it to ajp yet, seeing as how i plan on figuring it out this weekend as well.i will keep everyone posted w/my experience as i go

[Ben10]

Originally Posted by CaliGuy

I call BS Marvie! So, you're saying that the issues with the AJP kit are due to Hondata? You're saying that Hondata did something wrong to cause the issues that have been mentioned on here? You're saying that Hondata essentially did a bad tune?

Come on man...

I do not believe that marvie said anything about Hondata in this thread. The Reflash that Hondata provided is a very safe Flash. and you are not comparing apples to apples. We do you keep bring in comptech into this as their comparison would be for the Redshift kit at stage 1. The AJP has not kit on the market that hold for a comparison and the Greddy Kit is not in the AJP leagues.

Currently we have pushed further than anyone with the 06 + civc be it the fg1 or the fg2.

[GalaxyGreySi]

Originally Posted by Ben10

I do not believe that marvie said anything about Hondata in this thread. The Reflash that Hondata provided is a very safe Flash. and you are not comparing apples to apples. We do you keep bring in comptech into this as their comparison would be for the Redshift kit at stage 1. The AJP has not kit on the market that hold for a comparison and the Greddy Kit is not in the AJP leagues.

Currently we have pushed further than anyone with the 06 + civc be it the fg1 or the fg2.

This is true Ben, however, it has become pretty clear to everyone by now that the tune is not finished yet. I don't want to hear "well there isn't really much we can do right now without K-Pro". I am tired of hearing this excuse. Congrats on releasing a tune that is so safe, you haven't blown anyone's engine yet. I'm sure they all appreciate it. This tune is good from far, but still far from good. The tune should take things like temperature and altitude into consideration; I mean, why else would the car even be equipped with a Baro sensor and an IAT sensor? If the tune was a complete tune, you shouldn't have stalling issues. EVER. Do factory boosted cars have this issue? Do they have fluctuating A/F ratios when it gets cold out? Do they stall out? NO. Their computers adjust to compensate. What would having K-Pro fix anyway guys? You tune the car when it's 80 degrees outside, then when it's 40 degrees, you have to take it back to the dyno shop to get it re-tuned? Sounds to me like you guys need to call up Doug, and log some more hours working out a complete tune. If I'm being unreasonable or out of line here, please, call me on it. Otherwise, good to see the AJP boys back on the boards

[Omes]

Originally Posted by Ben10

Currently we have pushed further than anyone with the 06 + civc be it the fg1 or the fg2.

With all due respect, this is a moot point to me. The deciding factor for me, if I were purchase a power adder, is decent and reliable increases. I could care less if the car is pushing 350WHP if it can't do it without stalling, having overly rich AFRs, lacking a fuel filter on the return line, etc.

Again, I applaud you for being the first people on the scene for F/I'ing this car, but I personally think it was too hasty for you all to go about releasing such a kit which boasts high power numbers yet can have minor/major problems. I understand that tuning using only a reflash is the weakness of the system, but perhaps you should have taken that into account before releasing the kit to the public. I'm sure it was evident that a kit like this is extremely SENSITIVE to atmospheric conditions and must be specifically tuned for the atmospheric conditions where it's being driven. A reflash can't handle that, only something like K-Pro could. Power increase > OEM-like reliability? I can't vouch for that myself.

Just my personal take on the issue. I'm sure others would care to disagree.

[CaliGuy]

Originally Posted by GalaxyGreySi

This is true Ben, however, it has become pretty clear to everyone by now that the tune is not finished yet. I don't want to hear "well there isn't really much we can do right now without K-Pro". I am tired of hearing this excuse. Congrats on releasing a tune that is so safe, you haven't blown anyone's engine yet. I'm sure they all appreciate it. This tune is good from far, but still far from good. The tune should take things like temperature and altitude into consideration; I mean, why else would the car even be equipped with a Baro sensor and an IAT sensor? If the tune was a complete tune, you shouldn't have stalling issues. EVER. Do factory boosted cars have this issue? Do they have fluctuating A/F ratios when it gets cold out? Do they stall out? NO. Their computers adjust to compensate. What would having K-Pro fix anyway guys? You tune the car when it's 80 degrees outside, then when it's 40 degrees, you have to take it back to the dyno shop to get it re-tuned? Sounds to me like you guys need to call up Doug, and log some more hours working out a complete tune. If I'm being unreasonable or out of line here, please, call me on it. Otherwise, good to see the AJP boys back on the boards

Thank God someone else here has some balls to say what's on their mind! I've been the only one (next to Blu) who has continually tried to point out these issues.

Bottom line: 7k for a kit that has these issues is total and utter BS...

If the kit was 4k I would cut some slack, but charging a major premium for a product that doesn't perform 100% is garbage...

[CaliGuy]

Originally Posted by Ben10

I do not believe that marvie said anything about Hondata in this thread. The Reflash that Hondata provided is a very safe Flash. and you are not comparing apples to apples. We do you keep bring in comptech into this as their comparison would be for the Redshift kit at stage 1. The AJP has not kit on the market that hold for a comparison and the Greddy Kit is not in the AJP leagues.

Currently we have pushed further than anyone with the 06 + civc be it the fg1 or the fg2.

Did I mention Comptech, GReddy or Redshift in this post?????

[GalaxyGreySi]

^nope.

[Blk4drSI]

I think that I would rather just get a greddy kit and upgrade where necessary, honestly. 3 g's compared to over double? I will admit that the power is very impressive, but problems have to be fixed it I am to spend that kind of money on the AJP kit. Upgrade a few things from the greddy kit and then you would be in the same league and still spend less money.

[CaliGuy]

Originally Posted by Blk4drSI

I think that I would rather just get a greddy kit and upgrade where necessary, honestly. 3 g's compared to over double? I will admit that the power is very impressive, but problems have to be fixed it I am to spend that kind of money on the AJP kit. Upgrade a few things from the greddy kit and then you would be in the same league and still spend less money.

Unlikely, but still the cost is far less and from what I recall GReddy has worked out the bugs with their kit...

Who looks like the bigger fool: The guy that spent 3k, has some ok extra hp and no issues or the guy that spends 7k, has massive extra hp and has issues?

[2006exsedan]

just another reason why i went with comptech -

i cant express how important RELIABILITY is to me .. extra hp does not mean anything if the car isnt reliable ...

but good luck AJP with your kits... they are impressive

[sickyute]

1. Please point me to a post where i said all AJP kits run perfect... if they would all run perfect i won't be on here answering PMs and helping people out in trouble shooting threads.

2. please point me to a post where i said my car ran perfect and without issue... like i said before in previous posts ... certain things can be avoided, like the stalling, and others can't and u just have to deal with it as it comes ... some can and some can't deal with it ...

3. all those issues mentioned are ........ tune related .... who made the tune? AJP or Hondata? that's not to say hondata did a bad job ... they did what they could at the time ... if AJP told them to do X and they did X ... then that's their business and their reputation at stake ... either way they are 100% responsible for the tune, there is no way AJP can tune the car or even try to tune the car ... if they can't do it and do it right then don't do it at all ... so if ajp is selling a kit with a hondata tune then they are both to blame ... so u can call BS all u want but that's the reality ...

4. honda06si seems to be fine with his kit, so is esx005, streettuned and robert(not on forum) ...

5. every single kit will have minor issues (comptech, ajp, greddy, jackson etc etc) even after it's final tuning ... u'll never never get a forced induction kit to run perfectly 100% of the time ... some people had major issues (BCJ for example) ... it's what u can tolerate and what u can't ...

6. please do no compare an aftermarket kit to cars that come with factory kits ... that is 200% apples and oranges ... there is no tune than can be better than a factory tune ... doesn't matter how good the tune is, your car will NEVER work as good as a car with boost from the factory ....

7. 2rotormotor, if all ECU worked the same ... we'd have some sought of management by now ... that is without a doubt ... so i highly doubt that statement that all ECU work the same ..

8. how the hell should idle on a Boosted car be in the 20s?

9. I had to send out my ECU like everyone else ...
a) hondata worked on the shop car from like 9am - 9pm doing the tune.
b) transferred it to my car, did some dynos and made adjustments accordingly
c) when i got the car i did some checks and noticed some things were wrong ... like i couldn't rev past 4000 rpm in neutral ... stock is 5500 i think ... so i had to send the ECU out to get reprogrammed / reflashed with the tune u all had ...
d) blueroadster had the full reflash before i did ...

everyone want's to say "that's why i'll go redshift" ... ever thought to wonder if redshift will have any issue? ever thought well how do they plan to make the tune off of an rsx-s which doesn't have a MAF and transfer it to a car which uses a MAF? that' just a question i've been asking myself cuz it makes sense to me ... but do any of you all ask urselves any questions about the other kits you all want to jump on?

it's the same thing with the AJP kit ... jump on the ship without knowledge of the product ... not ajp or redshift or comptech or whoever but forced induction in general and then have all those philosophies about how it should work and be from what u heard but don't know.

IMO the people who are complaining the most are the people who are least knowledgeable about the subject ... and one can tell by certain remarks made in posts ...

word of advice is to browse around all other boards in their forced induction sections, educate urselves, understand certain issues and then see why some of us can tolerate certain things when others see it as total BS.

are u aware that comptech uses 300 something cc injectors? easy to tune
ajp uses what? 650?? hard to tune ...
injectors themselves alone is a big factor in tuning ... the larger the injectors the harder it is to tune ur vehicle ...
and that's just one aspect of it ...
for christ's sake ... it's not as easy as yall are making it out to be and u can't compare ajp to comptech or comptech to greddy for that reason alone and many more ....

ever wonder why some comptech SC dynos show afr in the 11s, then others show it in the 13s... when under boost? if the tune is soo good why is that? what's causing the fluctuation is AFR in the same kits?

how can one make a reflash to accommodate for 100% of circumstances? especially one related to forced induction?

any more flames to throw my way?

PS: ... i won't be responding to any more posts in this thread ... it's just getting ridiculous ... it's as if people are just searching for things to discredit me when all i've done is be on the board to help as i went through the most crap with all the testing and so on and know what i'm saying ... i don't have an AJP kit no more so why the hell should i even care? carry on withe the fighting

[Mr Bigs]

Originally Posted by Blk4drSI

I think that I would rather just get a greddy kit and upgrade where necessary, honestly. 3 g's compared to over double? I will admit that the power is very impressive, but problems have to be fixed it I am to spend that kind of money on the AJP kit. Upgrade a few things from the greddy kit and then you would be in the same league and still spend less money.

Where you would wind up at is the same amount of money if you want that kinda power, which I doubt it is gonna happen on a Greddy kit. You have to upgrade that whole kit.

[BATANG CITY JAIL]

Originally Posted by GalaxyGreySi

This is true Ben, however, it has become pretty clear to everyone by now that the tune is not finished yet. I don't want to hear "well there isn't really much we can do right now without K-Pro". I am tired of hearing this excuse. Congrats on releasing a tune that is so safe, you haven't blown anyone's engine yet. I'm sure they all appreciate it. This tune is good from far, but still far from good. The tune should take things like temperature and altitude into consideration; I mean, why else would the car even be equipped with a Baro sensor and an IAT sensor? If the tune was a complete tune, you shouldn't have stalling issues. EVER. Do factory boosted cars have this issue? Do they have fluctuating A/F ratios when it gets cold out? Do they stall out? NO. Their computers adjust to compensate. What would having K-Pro fix anyway guys? You tune the car when it's 80 degrees outside, then when it's 40 degrees, you have to take it back to the dyno shop to get it re-tuned? Sounds to me like you guys need to call up Doug, and log some more hours working out a complete tune. If I'm being unreasonable or out of line here, please, call me on it. Otherwise, good to see the AJP boys back on the boards

in additon, the AFR stay the same when the temp here went to 80's, still in 10's.. theres no way you can re-tune it on the dyno since there is only one thing that control the fuel, plus it wont be that effective since you will be adjusting the whole fuel band not just on certain RPM...

btw, i only see's 12's on the A/F R and will stay if the A/C fan is on.

[honda06si]

Originally Posted by BATANG CITY JAIL

btw, i only see's 12's on the A/F R and will stay if the A/C fan is on.

ive heard this to