Moss Motors Civic SI (jr supercharger and vishnu piggyback)= 234HP and 171lb-tq

hondasi006 · 03-25-2007, 10:54 AM

autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070323/FREE/70315003/1004/THISWEEKSISSUE

Moss Motors Honda Civic Si
It's not just for Brits anymore

By MARK VAUGHN

AutoWeek | Published 03/21/07, 2:22 pm et

If you spent your teen years underneath an MG or a Triumph desperately trying to translate greasy repair manuals from British to American English (“Remove banjo bolt with spanner whilst simultaneously rotating the bubble and squeak anticlockwise”), you probably wound up buying some very expensive part from Moss Motors. Al Moss made a fortune off guys like us.

He opened Moss Motors in Santa Monica, California, in 1948, fixing all those British sports cars he and his friends loved to race. There were never enough parts, so Moss started supplying them, too, and in 1962, he printed his first catalog.

Since then, Moss Motors has been the source of car parts for the Britishly afflicted. Indeed, when we walked into the Moss Motors world headquarters in Goleta, California, the first things we saw were old British sports cars in various stages of disassembly all over the floor. That was Moss Motors doing R&D (Al retired long ago).

But Moss isn’t all about water pump gaskets for your 1957 MGA. Among the parts available online are (get this) superchargers. Imagine what you could have done at the local club meet back in the day with a supercharger on your oil-challenged Bugeye Sprite. Moss will supercharge many old sports cars for between $3,000 and $4,000.

But old sports cars aren’t a growth industry; newer four-bangers are. Moss started doing superchargers in 1996, the first one going onto a Miata. A partnership with Honda tuning demigod Oscar Jackson followed. Jackson had perfected the application of a Garrett supercharger to transverse-mounted four-cylinder engines, and Hondas were his specialty. Jackson sold his technology to Moss, and now there are superchargers galore at Moss Motors, kits for everything from MGBs to Chrysler PT Cruisers and Honda Civics.

Our Moss experience was in a 2006 Civic Si. Out of the box, it makes 197 hp and 139 lb-ft of torque at the flywheel, which is 171 hp and 126 lb-ft at the wheel on Moss’ Mustang dynamometer. Ours had an Eaton M62 blower, 440-cc injectors and a Vishnu XEDE piggyback engine controller and injector harness to boost wheel horsepower to 234 and torque to 171 lb-ft.

The rest of our car was bone stock. The dyno sheet shows a nearly straight diagonal of improvement on the horsepower line, starting not far above idle and climbing all the way across the graph. A fat layer of extra torque is piled on top of the stock line. When the blower isn’t needed, a vacuum bypass system opens up so it uses less than half a horsepower of parasitic drag.

We enjoyed the Civic on some steep mountain roads. There’s no lag with a supercharger and little, if any, whine from the blower. It was as if someone had snuck in and added another two cylinders.

The complete kit for the Civic Si is $3,795 without installation, a big percentage of the purchase price of the car. But what price glory?

StLVtec · 03-25-2007, 11:15 AM

i like it but not many paople have it

hondasi006 · 03-25-2007, 12:07 PM

imo the numbers are too low for the price, but what i was interested in was that vishnu company deals with ecu upgrades and that si has it, i checked out there site but theres no info on the si. i emailed them and am waiting on a reply.

4_Door_SI · 03-25-2007, 12:15 PM

If you go to the site and read, these numbers were achieved with stock airbox, headers and exhaust on a mustang dyno. Maybe if it were done on a dynojet it would be closer to 250 whp.

StLVtec · 03-25-2007, 01:02 PM

yeha thats just the s/c no other performance mods. I would say those are pretty good #'s. I just dont know to much about the vishnu but people said it has good tuning capability

Highrev1 · 03-25-2007, 01:06 PM

THe only thing I can see I wouldn't like about the Vishnu item is that there is no VTC control from what I can tell. It only says vtec engagment not VTC. That is somthing that really should be adjusted in order to make some good gains.

StLVtec · 03-25-2007, 03:17 PM

yeah i wonder when kpro comes out if jackson will switch there em

Dwn4nythng · 03-26-2007, 04:41 AM

This has more gains then the Redshift one. Least this one is in horsepower and not brake horsepower like Redshift. Brake hp is way lower. Just a ploy to get people to buy their stuff. Patience is a virtue.

Omes · 03-26-2007, 02:31 PM

Yeah, makes sense to compare two different types of superchargers together. I'm sure the Rotrex kits made by the new Jackson company will put down even more power. Then again, it won't respond the same as a twin-screw since it is centrifugal.

Mr Bigs · 03-26-2007, 06:48 PM

Don't hate!!! Congratulate. Redshift = #1

enter801 · 03-26-2007, 10:11 PM

There are a lot of people praising a product that hasn't been evaluated by the tuner public on this forum. I don't think its a "ploy" to show BHP, it is just a different measurement. Most tuners go by wheel and manufacturers and such go off of brake because the numbers are higher. As long as you know the difference(and I'd think that by far most people here do) you're ok.

TeamValorRacing · 03-26-2007, 11:16 PM

i dont understand it, because if you look up conversion factors on the internet, 1bhp=1hp all day. its just a different way to measure crank power with a braking dyno. so why is this such a "bad concept"?

***nbilyue*** · 03-27-2007, 11:54 AM

Not only that, Chris from Redshift has stated that they aren't bhp numbers, they are estimated numbers. So we have no idea exactly how well the kit will perform. I have a good feeling it will do rather well, but no one knows yet for certain.

Punting_midgets · 03-27-2007, 02:27 PM

Twin screw FTW!!!

Omes · 03-27-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamValorRacing

i dont understand it, because if you look up conversion factors on the internet, 1bhp=1hp all day. its just a different way to measure crank power with a braking dyno. so why is this such a "bad concept"?

He was referring to the difference between WHP and BHP.

TeamValorRacing · 03-27-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwn4nythng

This has more gains then the Redshift one. Least this one is in horsepower and not brake horsepower like Redshift. Brake hp is way lower. Just a ploy to get people to buy their stuff. Patience is a virtue.

you make absolutley no sense. its ok to not understand, but its not ok to spew your ignorance to others.

Gergs06Si · 03-28-2007, 01:36 PM

I had decided to go with the Jackson Racing [Moss Motors] SC for my '06 Si, as CompTech has gone out of business. When I called to order last week, I found out they are not currently selling this SC kit because of "technical issues" they need to sort out. Keith at Moss Motors technical dept. said he could not be more specific.

TeamValorRacing · 03-28-2007, 04:24 PM

^^ see, i told you guys the truth. jackson racing FTL x 100000000.

Dwn4nythng · 03-29-2007, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamValorRacing

you make absolutley no sense. its ok to not understand, but its not ok to spew your ignorance to others.

Ignorance? Go look it up NOOB. BHP is less then hp and whp, they are NOT THE SAME. Don't argue with me til you look it up. I will always know more about racing then you do. BHP has NOTHING hooked up to it, no drivetrain, not tested on a car, no nothing. Research, before you speak lil one. People who has patience gains more then people who can't wait. This is why I do things once to gain the most HP, while you do it twice to three times. I just buy more guns while I wait for companies to put out more products. Why be limited to one when you can choose from more later. Been racing before you was born, lil boy. Want more proof? When I went to Hondata to pick up a IMG I asked them about bhp vs hp and whp and they said the same thing I just said. Dayam your stupid. Now, don't spread your ignorance because you don't know and got OWNED.

TeamValorRacing · 03-29-2007, 08:56 AM

these are from 4 differenr conversion and racing sites. man you're hard headed.

1 HP = 1 bhp, or 1 bHP, or 1 Bhp (brake horsepower), or 1 shp (shaft horsepower)

BHP is brake horsepower, same thing as HP, this is how much HP is at the crankshaft.. WHP is wheel horsepower, this is how much HP is getting to the wheels.

BHP- Brake HP measured at flywheel

Brake / net / crankshaft horsepower (power delivered directly to and measured at the engine's crankshaft).

^4 different reputable sites and all the same answer. you say you're mature but you call people noobs and say 0Wn3d!11!!. Again, quit spreading your ignorance.

03-25-2007, 10:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
hondasi006 Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,128 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Moss Motors Civic SI (jr supercharger and vishnu piggyback)= 234HP and 171lb-tq autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070323/FREE/70315003/1004/THISWEEKSISSUE Moss Motors Honda Civic Si It's not just for Brits anymore By MARK VAUGHN AutoWeek \| Published 03/21/07, 2:22 pm et If you spent your teen years underneath an MG or a Triumph desperately trying to translate greasy repair manuals from British to American English (“Remove banjo bolt with spanner whilst simultaneously rotating the bubble and squeak anticlockwise”), you probably wound up buying some very expensive part from Moss Motors. Al Moss made a fortune off guys like us. He opened Moss Motors in Santa Monica, California, in 1948, fixing all those British sports cars he and his friends loved to race. There were never enough parts, so Moss started supplying them, too, and in 1962, he printed his first catalog. Since then, Moss Motors has been the source of car parts for the Britishly afflicted. Indeed, when we walked into the Moss Motors world headquarters in Goleta, California, the first things we saw were old British sports cars in various stages of disassembly all over the floor. That was Moss Motors doing R&D (Al retired long ago). But Moss isn’t all about water pump gaskets for your 1957 MGA. Among the parts available online are (get this) superchargers. Imagine what you could have done at the local club meet back in the day with a supercharger on your oil-challenged Bugeye Sprite. Moss will supercharge many old sports cars for between $3,000 and $4,000. But old sports cars aren’t a growth industry; newer four-bangers are. Moss started doing superchargers in 1996, the first one going onto a Miata. A partnership with Honda tuning demigod Oscar Jackson followed. Jackson had perfected the application of a Garrett supercharger to transverse-mounted four-cylinder engines, and Hondas were his specialty. Jackson sold his technology to Moss, and now there are superchargers galore at Moss Motors, kits for everything from MGBs to Chrysler PT Cruisers and Honda Civics. Our Moss experience was in a 2006 Civic Si. Out of the box, it makes 197 hp and 139 lb-ft of torque at the flywheel, which is 171 hp and 126 lb-ft at the wheel on Moss’ Mustang dynamometer. Ours had an Eaton M62 blower, 440-cc injectors and a Vishnu XEDE piggyback engine controller and injector harness to boost wheel horsepower to 234 and torque to 171 lb-ft. The rest of our car was bone stock. The dyno sheet shows a nearly straight diagonal of improvement on the horsepower line, starting not far above idle and climbing all the way across the graph. A fat layer of extra torque is piled on top of the stock line. When the blower isn’t needed, a vacuum bypass system opens up so it uses less than half a horsepower of parasitic drag. We enjoyed the Civic on some steep mountain roads. There’s no lag with a supercharger and little, if any, whine from the blower. It was as if someone had snuck in and added another two cylinders. The complete kit for the Civic Si is $3,795 without installation, a big percentage of the purchase price of the car. But what price glory?

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03-25-2007, 11:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
StLVtec Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: st.louis Posts: 958 iTrader: 7 / 100%	i like it but not many paople have it

03-25-2007, 12:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
hondasi006 Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,128 iTrader: 0 / 0%	imo the numbers are too low for the price, but what i was interested in was that vishnu company deals with ecu upgrades and that si has it, i checked out there site but theres no info on the si. i emailed them and am waiting on a reply.

03-25-2007, 12:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
4_Door_SI Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warner Robins GA Posts: 156 iTrader: 1 / 100%	If you go to the site and read, these numbers were achieved with stock airbox, headers and exhaust on a mustang dyno. Maybe if it were done on a dynojet it would be closer to 250 whp.

03-25-2007, 01:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
StLVtec Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: st.louis Posts: 958 iTrader: 7 / 100%	yeha thats just the s/c no other performance mods. I would say those are pretty good #'s. I just dont know to much about the vishnu but people said it has good tuning capability

03-25-2007, 01:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
Highrev1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,710 iTrader: 1 / 100%	THe only thing I can see I wouldn't like about the Vishnu item is that there is no VTC control from what I can tell. It only says vtec engagment not VTC. That is somthing that really should be adjusted in order to make some good gains.

03-25-2007, 03:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
StLVtec Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: st.louis Posts: 958 iTrader: 7 / 100%	yeah i wonder when kpro comes out if jackson will switch there em

03-26-2007, 04:41 AM	#8 (permalink)
Dwn4nythng Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: You think he's going to jail, it will be a long while before he does. I know what their doing. Posts: 2,424 NorCal Meet Organizer iTrader: 1 / 100%	This has more gains then the Redshift one. Least this one is in horsepower and not brake horsepower like Redshift. Brake hp is way lower. Just a ploy to get people to buy their stuff. Patience is a virtue.

03-26-2007, 02:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
Omes Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: SoCal Posts: 395 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Yeah, makes sense to compare two different types of superchargers together. I'm sure the Rotrex kits made by the new Jackson company will put down even more power. Then again, it won't respond the same as a twin-screw since it is centrifugal.

03-26-2007, 06:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mr Bigs Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bklyn N.Y Age: 36 Posts: 185 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Don't hate!!! Congratulate. Redshift = #1

03-26-2007, 10:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
enter801 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 30 Posts: 515 iTrader: 0 / 0%	There are a lot of people praising a product that hasn't been evaluated by the tuner public on this forum. I don't think its a "ploy" to show BHP, it is just a different measurement. Most tuners go by wheel and manufacturers and such go off of brake because the numbers are higher. As long as you know the difference(and I'd think that by far most people here do) you're ok.

03-26-2007, 11:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
TeamValorRacing Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,015 iTrader: 6 / 100%	i dont understand it, because if you look up conversion factors on the internet, 1bhp=1hp all day. its just a different way to measure crank power with a braking dyno. so why is this such a "bad concept"?

03-27-2007, 11:54 AM	#13 (permalink)
*nbilyue* VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 25 Posts: 1,026 Neal iTrader: 1 / 100%	Not only that, Chris from Redshift has stated that they aren't bhp numbers, they are estimated numbers. So we have no idea exactly how well the kit will perform. I have a good feeling it will do rather well, but no one knows yet for certain.

03-27-2007, 02:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
Punting_midgets Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 108 iTrader: 2 / 100%	Twin screw FTW!!!

03-28-2007, 01:36 PM	#17 (permalink)
Gergs06Si Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I had decided to go with the Jackson Racing [Moss Motors] SC for my '06 Si, as CompTech has gone out of business. When I called to order last week, I found out they are not currently selling this SC kit because of "technical issues" they need to sort out. Keith at Moss Motors technical dept. said he could not be more specific.

03-28-2007, 04:24 PM	#18 (permalink)
TeamValorRacing Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,015 iTrader: 6 / 100%	^^ see, i told you guys the truth. jackson racing FTL x 100000000.

03-29-2007, 08:56 AM	#20 (permalink)
TeamValorRacing Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,015 iTrader: 6 / 100%	these are from 4 differenr conversion and racing sites. man you're hard headed. 1 HP = 1 bhp, or 1 bHP, or 1 Bhp (brake horsepower), or 1 shp (shaft horsepower) BHP is brake horsepower, same thing as HP, this is how much HP is at the crankshaft.. WHP is wheel horsepower, this is how much HP is getting to the wheels. BHP- Brake HP measured at flywheel Brake / net / crankshaft horsepower (power delivered directly to and measured at the engine's crankshaft). ^4 different reputable sites and all the same answer. you say you're mature but you call people noobs and say 0Wn3d!11!!. Again, quit spreading your ignorance.