Going Forced Induction? You should probably take a look at this site.

[PhYsIcS]

Hey guys I'm definately no Civic expert, I don't even own a Civic. But I was looking for specs on the K20 and happened to stumble across this website. This place looks like it has a LOT of parts you all could use to build up your engine if you're going the Forced Induction route. If you click on Engine Internals they have JE pistons with a 9:1 compression(which you should definately have with a turbo or blower, 11:1 is way too high). Stronger steel Rods, almost look like an H-Beam to me. They even offer a cam for your 07 Si's, but I'm not sure if that's a good cam for Forced Induction or not. Anyways take a look around the site, and maybe give them a call if you have questions. Just figured I'd show this to you all.

http://www.procivic.com/pages-pro_se...-87/index.html

[60103]

thanks for the info

on the same subject does anyone know if there is some sort of riser out for our cars to go between the head and block to lower the comp ratio?

[Chase]

why not run 11:1 on a FI motor??

[PhYsIcS]

Because you'll blow the motor up, and considering your block is aluminum it would be even easier to crack that block. Thats why when a company decides to put a blower on their vehicle stock, they use cast iron blocks because they are stronger (For example, 2003 Mustang Cobra or Ford Lightning pickup). You can probably run about 6 psi safely, but I wouldn't go any higher then that. Even at 6 psi, don't expect the motor to last you a 100,000 miles without forged internal parts. Steel pistons, heavy duty steel rods, valves, valve springs.

With a high compression motor you run into a few problems.
1. Detonation (fuel igniting before the spark plug sparks off the air/fuel mixture). You're going to have a lot of this with a high compression motor+FI, which means when you do all the computer adjustments you're going to have to set the timing way back a lot to get it to run safely. Otherwise you're going to have to use an high octane additive, or probably an alcohol-type injection.
2. Combustion. The numbers 11.0:1 means the charge is compressed 11 to 1 at top dead center. Say you put 10 pounds of boost from a turbo in a cylinder, you are actually compressing the charge by 10lbs when the piston is all the way down so on the up stroke there will be a higher compression because there is more in the cylinder to start. 10 lbs of forced air on top of an 11:1 compression means you are stressing the hell out of that motor each time you slam your foot down on the gas. The pistons cannot handle that, and if they are cast iron you are going to destroy them very quickly. Even with a safe tune your engine just cannot handle that kind of stress without the right parts. That is why you lower the compression, it relieves the motor of some of the stress.

There is an actual calculation you can use to show what kind of compression your motor is pushing out with forced induction. Here it is:
(boost pressure/14.7)+1)*Static Compression Ratio

Now again, lets say you use 10psi of boost on your stock vehicle.
That is an 18.48:1 compression ratio. 18.5:1, and your motor was built for 11:1, you think it can handle the difference? Good luck.

I've noticed there are a few people on here actually using around 8-10 psi on their Civics, and I'm warning you that even with a good tune that is not going to last. Get the right parts, that website I posted looks like a pretty good place to start.

If you all don't want to believe me then here is a good example of what can happen to stock Cast Iron pistons with 10 Psi from a supercharger. This is from my Chevy S-10.



I cracked pistons 1 and 3, and I got off easy. My engine is a cast iron 4.3L V6 with cast iron cylinder heads and pistons. Luckily I didn't really damage the cylinder walls or even worse spin a bearing else that motor would of been toast.

The engine is back together now, and completely rebuilt from the ground up. If you want to see an example of what a built motor looks like, here is my photbucket account.
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/1BadS10Xtreme/
Click on "Engine Rebuild" to see the built motor.

[Fishytron]

thats too high for FI. you would experience's some serious detonation which is when the gas in an engine detonates before the spark due to to high of temperatures. lowering the Compression ratios fixes this problem.

[Fishytron]

wow... lot more in depth then mine.

[Street2uned]

A properly tuned high comp turbo set up is not as dangerous as you make it out to be. There are too many variables to take into consideration. I understand what you are saying and agree to an extent, but my motor will not blow up b/c my compression is too high and I'm boosted. Can I prove that to you? Nope, time will prove it. Nice link BTW.

[Highrev1]

Up to about 10-11 PSI the stock K-series are good. They are very strong engines I wouldn't worry about putting 10psi on my engine. As long as the TUNE is good

"The k20 series is a strong engine, but experts suggest not to go past about 9.5 psi on stock pistons as the ring lands can't handle prolonged stress"

[PhYsIcS]

Someone said your k-engines have forged parts? What parts are forged steel? That's how I even found this link, I was trying to find out all of the components of the engine in your cars because I was curious what Honda did with this engine. Do you all have forged pistons or cast iron?

[06blkstealthsi]

as far as i know, most moving parts are forged. somebody correct me if im wrong, cause i know i prolly am.....pistons are lightweight aluminum so im guessin they're forged, rods and crank are too?

[Highrev1]

Were refering to the R18 engine and their rods there is a new way they make them.?.?

[udumkid]

Originally Posted by PhYsIcS

Because you'll blow the motor up, and considering your block is aluminum it would be even easier to crack that block. Thats why when a company decides to put a blower on their vehicle stock, they use cast iron blocks because they are stronger (For example, 2003 Mustang Cobra or Ford Lightning pickup). You can probably run about 6 psi safely, but I wouldn't go any higher then that. Even at 6 psi, don't expect the motor to last you a 100,000 miles without forged internal parts. Steel pistons, heavy duty steel rods, valves, valve springs.

With a high compression motor you run into a few problems.
1. Detonation (fuel igniting before the spark plug sparks off the air/fuel mixture). You're going to have a lot of this with a high compression motor+FI, which means when you do all the computer adjustments you're going to have to set the timing way back a lot to get it to run safely. Otherwise you're going to have to use an high octane additive, or probably an alcohol-type injection.
2. Combustion. The numbers 11.0:1 means the charge is compressed 11 to 1 at top dead center. Say you put 10 pounds of boost from a turbo in a cylinder, you are actually compressing the charge by 10lbs when the piston is all the way down so on the up stroke there will be a higher compression because there is more in the cylinder to start. 10 lbs of forced air on top of an 11:1 compression means you are stressing the hell out of that motor each time you slam your foot down on the gas. The pistons cannot handle that, and if they are cast iron you are going to destroy them very quickly. Even with a safe tune your engine just cannot handle that kind of stress without the right parts. That is why you lower the compression, it relieves the motor of some of the stress.

There is an actual calculation you can use to show what kind of compression your motor is pushing out with forced induction. Here it is:
(boost pressure/14.7)+1)*Static Compression Ratio

Now again, lets say you use 10psi of boost on your stock vehicle.
That is an 18.48:1 compression ratio. 18.5:1, and your motor was built for 11:1, you think it can handle the difference? Good luck.

I've noticed there are a few people on here actually using around 8-10 psi on their Civics, and I'm warning you that even with a good tune that is not going to last. Get the right parts, that website I posted looks like a pretty good place to start.

If you all don't want to believe me then here is a good example of what can happen to stock Cast Iron pistons with 10 Psi from a supercharger. This is from my Chevy S-10.



I cracked pistons 1 and 3, and I got off easy. My engine is a cast iron 4.3L V6 with cast iron cylinder heads and pistons. Luckily I didn't really damage the cylinder walls or even worse spin a bearing else that motor would of been toast.

The engine is back together now, and completely rebuilt from the ground up. If you want to see an example of what a built motor looks like, here is my photbucket account.
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/1BadS10Xtreme/
Click on "Engine Rebuild" to see the built motor.

Love to see some one else that knows his stuff. +1 rep point for you.

[jameslewis178]

na that compression is completely fine and will not cause your motor to blow. as long as your car is tuned correctly your fine. and there are numerous stock motor rsx-s with 550whp that have been raced and daily driven for atleast a year. go to clubrsx and look for yourself. just about the same motor but they can use k-pro

[COMplex]

Originally Posted by PhYsIcS

Because you'll blow the motor up, and considering your block is aluminum it would be even easier to crack that block. Thats why when a company decides to put a blower on their vehicle stock, they use cast iron blocks because they are stronger (For example, 2003 Mustang Cobra or Ford Lightning pickup). You can probably run about 6 psi safely, but I wouldn't go any higher then that. Even at 6 psi, don't expect the motor to last you a 100,000 miles without forged internal parts. Steel pistons, heavy duty steel rods, valves, valve springs.

With a high compression motor you run into a few problems.
1. Detonation (fuel igniting before the spark plug sparks off the air/fuel mixture). You're going to have a lot of this with a high compression motor+FI, which means when you do all the computer adjustments you're going to have to set the timing way back a lot to get it to run safely. Otherwise you're going to have to use an high octane additive, or probably an alcohol-type injection.
2. Combustion. The numbers 11.0:1 means the charge is compressed 11 to 1 at top dead center. Say you put 10 pounds of boost from a turbo in a cylinder, you are actually compressing the charge by 10lbs when the piston is all the way down so on the up stroke there will be a higher compression because there is more in the cylinder to start. 10 lbs of forced air on top of an 11:1 compression means you are stressing the hell out of that motor each time you slam your foot down on the gas. The pistons cannot handle that, and if they are cast iron you are going to destroy them very quickly. Even with a safe tune your engine just cannot handle that kind of stress without the right parts. That is why you lower the compression, it relieves the motor of some of the stress.

There is an actual calculation you can use to show what kind of compression your motor is pushing out with forced induction. Here it is:
(boost pressure/14.7)+1)*Static Compression Ratio

Now again, lets say you use 10psi of boost on your stock vehicle.
That is an 18.48:1 compression ratio. 18.5:1, and your motor was built for 11:1, you think it can handle the difference? Good luck.

I've noticed there are a few people on here actually using around 8-10 psi on their Civics, and I'm warning you that even with a good tune that is not going to last. Get the right parts, that website I posted looks like a pretty good place to start.

If you all don't want to believe me then here is a good example of what can happen to stock Cast Iron pistons with 10 Psi from a supercharger. This is from my Chevy S-10.

[IM G]http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/1BadS10Xtreme/Engine%20Breakdown/n31802631_30436014_6717.jpg[/IMG]
[IM G]http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/1BadS10Xtreme/Engine%20Breakdown/n31802631_30436015_7039.jpg[/IMG]
I cracked pistons 1 and 3, and I got off easy. My engine is a cast iron 4.3L V6 with cast iron cylinder heads and pistons. Luckily I didn't really damage the cylinder walls or even worse spin a bearing else that motor would of been toast.

The engine is back together now, and completely rebuilt from the ground up. If you want to see an example of what a built motor looks like, here is my photbucket account.
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/1BadS10Xtreme/
Click on "Engine Rebuild" to see the built motor.

Very nice post, but the only major flaw is that you are comparing a Chevy motor to a Honda motor. I may be biased, but I trust Honda's engineers waaay more than I do Chevy. Anyhow, a good tune is the key to boosting safely.

Good post nonetheless, quite informative +1 rep for you!

[PhYsIcS]

http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/RiVTEC/other2.jpg

If that's all they are referring to when they say "forged internals" then thats nothing really special at all. I guess the whole forging the rod and cracking it apart makes the rods a bit stronger, but it's still just an I-beam rod. I-beam rods will work just fine for non-Forced Induction applications, and even some Forced Induction applications it will do fine. But once you start getting into heavy horsepower engines or a lot of boost, you need to go with a H-Beam rod. They are much, much stronger. If you ran 10psi of boost on your engine, I would recommend using the H-Beam rods.

As you can see here, the main cap and I-Beam connecting rod are two parts as well on my truck.

Here is an example of what I have now, which are H-Beam rods.


These were probably forged as one piece and cracked apart like your rods were, but I'm not sure. Looks like it to me. Notice how the rod is much thicker.

Thing is though I was more curious about what the actual parts of the engine were made of. What are the pistons made of, the valves, the crank, the rods, etc. Are the iron or steel? If anyone has like an entire blueprint with information on the engine, I'd like to see it out of curiosity.

The way it goes is this: Aluminum < Iron < Steel. Steel being the strongest and most durable parts. Aluminum is the best at absorbing heat however, which is part of the reason why when companies create high compression motors these days, they can still run on pump gas without any detonation because the entire engine block is aluminum. Your engine and the Chevy LS1 V8 are two really good examples of that.

[PhYsIcS]

Very nice post, but the only major flaw is that you are comparing a Chevy motor to a Honda motor. I may be biased, but I trust Honda's engineers waaay more than I do Chevy. Anyhow, a good tune is the key to boosting safely.

Trust who you want, I'm not going to argue that either way. But when it comes to engines it's a matter of physics and chemistry, no matter who makes the engine. The differences in engineering is a matter of how the engine is kept cooled. Do not think that I am comparing my chevy engine to your honda engine, I am talking about engines in general. I've had friends of mine with honda engines blow their shit up because they were trying to do this stuff on the stock engine.

[60103]

Originally Posted by PhYsIcS

The pistons can't be aluminum, I've never heard of any company actually doing that. I would think with just a high compression alone an aluminum piston would melt. And if you used a supercharger on a high compression aluminum piston, I GURANTEE you're engine would be ****** in matter of a few runs. I'm guessing you all have cast iron pistons like just about everyone uses in their engines. Maybe the crankshaft is forged steel or something. Which if it is, that would be great because you could handle gobs of torque and not have to worry about the crank going out on you.

"the higher tensile strength 2618 aluminum alloy used in JE Pistons."

thats from the site you told us to refer to for internals.

[PhYsIcS]

lol ah alrighty then I stand corrected. I suppose that make sense now that I think about it, because aluminum is supposed to handle heat better. So is that what honda uses on their Si engine as well?

[Cookstar]

I'm not an expert on this subject but I do know that there are a ton of aftermarket forced induction kits out there for normally aspirated engines. It seems like if they were all blowing up, there wouldn't be a market for the kits.

[slicknick]

Originally Posted by Cookstar

I'm not an expert on this subject but I do know that there are a ton of aftermarket forced induction kits out there for normally aspirated engines. It seems like if they were all blowing up, there wouldn't be a market for the kits.

Exactly, go to club rsx, as someone stated before, and look in the supercharged section. There are alot of cars running S/C's on stock internals for 5-50k miles with no problems. Some of them running around 10psi.

I could be wrong but if our engines were going to be "blowing" up, wouldn't the RSX be a good example to look at?