Fuel Injector Chat and Discussion

[maiku]

Just sayin', but I've never had any idle problems with my RC 650's. It idles super smooth and AF is around 14.8.
My only issue is the car doesn't want to start up easily as I've mentioned 100x without resolve.
The cold start issue is not temperature related. I live in FL.

[Supa Ninja]

Have you tried adding some timing, helped me.

[Str8JDM]

wow wish i knew what the hell everybody is talking about...lol

[soxfan143]

Nick, check your IAT and coolant temp cranking comp tables in the fuel parameter. That could be your problem along with the cranking trims. You could be dumping WAY too much fuel while cranking because of the comp tables. Then when it does fire the car might be pulling fuel like crazy causing it to go really lean for a bit.

Just thinking out loud here.

[Bugermass]

Use the dead times provided with the inejctors plain and simple. If the map you have was tuned on 1000s of another brand and were run on the base dead time tables then you are going to have to retune. I know.. It Sucks... but its better to do it that way.


I forgot who posted the question, but open loop with primary wideband enabled, just 0 out the min and max trims.. Keep in mind if you disable the primary O2 you will have to retune your whole map as this forces the ECU into a totally different fueling routine and will throw off the whole map.. ( I know cause I did it once and was pissed... )

And yeah hondatas fuel % stuff is calculated weird. The commanded change % doesn't always = % change in AFR.. Thats why i wish calvin would make the equivalent of eCtune for K series.. Its so much nicer to use somthing that works like its supposed to. ..

[soxfan143]

Originally Posted by Bugermass

Use the dead times provided with the inejctors plain and simple. If the map you have was tuned on 1000s of another brand and were run on the base dead time tables then you are going to have to retune. I know.. It Sucks... but its better to do it that way.


I forgot who posted the question, but open loop with primary wideband enabled, just 0 out the min and max trims.. Keep in mind if you disable the primary O2 you will have to retune your whole map as this forces the ECU into a totally different fueling routine and will throw off the whole map.. ( I know cause I did it once and was pissed... )

And yeah hondatas fuel % stuff is calculated weird. The commanded change % doesn't always = % change in AFR.. Thats why i wish calvin would make the equivalent of eCtune for K series.. Its so much nicer to use somthing that works like its supposed to. ..

So if you tune a map with the primary disabled then activate the O2 it will be all whacked out and you will have to retune it again of you want closed loop operation? hat sucks!

[Supa Ninja]

Just a little update, I'm using the greddy's timing/cam angle's. I have the ID1000 60psi latencies and it was 37F this morning, it started after I squrted some carb cleaner onto a vacuum port. I took all the default values for the IAT compensation cranking and divided them by 2. This cold start problem is really pissing me off. The rest of you guys need to hurry up and those IDs in so you'all help me figure it out.

[soxfan143]

Originally Posted by Supa Ninja

Just a little update, I'm using the greddy's timing/cam angle's. I have the ID1000 60psi latencies and it was 37F this morning, it started after I squrted some carb cleaner onto a vacuum port. I took all the default values for the IAT compensation cranking and divided them by 2. This cold start problem is really pissing me off. The rest of you guys need to hurry up and those IDs in so you'all help me figure it out.

If it started with carb cleaner then you need to add fuel in the IAT comp tables at that temp. You don't have enough fuel cranking.

[Supa Ninja]

I tried it mike, it had cooled down but it was 45F do no the real test, tomorrow lows in the 20's and snow.

[maiku]

I dunno if anyone has looked for this information, but I asked RC for it.
Not sure if it'll even help or if it's relevant. I don't remember the inputs in the flashpro. I'm about to go out and check tho.

Here are the injector latency times for the SL4-650:
10v 1.08ms
11 0.86
12 0.69
13 0.54
14 0.41
15 0.31

[mucter]

Maiku, before you go and put those in FPM. 2 things to note.

1) those values need to be converted to uSec (multiply by 1000).
2) they are for 43psi fuel pressure. Our car is 10 psi higher stock. This increases the latency values, you'll need to increase them by 10% or so, and even then they may not be ideal.

[maiku]

Originally Posted by mucter

Maiku, before you go and put those in FPM. 2 things to note.

1) those values need to be converted to uSec (multiply by 1000).
2) they are for 43psi fuel pressure. Our car is 10 psi higher stock. This increases the latency values, you'll need to increase them by 10% or so, and even then they may not be ideal.

Crap. Here I thought I might be onto something. lol. Without the exact figure it'd probably be a waste of time.

Well wait, with that logic, if they change with the fuel pressure then could that be Nick's problem since he has a return system?

[mucter]

Unlike RC, ID supplies the applicable latency at a variety of fuel pressures, including the pressure Nick is running. So he would have put the proper latency in. Even so, he's still having issues. We need to rebuild a new map for the 1000cc injectors using the proper latency. I'll be attacking this soon when I install mine.

[soxfan143]

Originally Posted by mucter

Unlike RC, ID supplies the applicable latency at a variety of fuel pressures, including the pressure Nick is running. So he would have put the proper latency in. Even so, he's still having issues. We need to rebuild a new map for the 1000cc injectors using the proper latency. I'll be attacking this soon when I install mine.

I'll be waiting..... I need to get my injectors in to. lol..

[mucter]

.....I can feel the pressure now....lol

[Bugermass]

Originally Posted by soxfan143

So if you tune a map with the primary disabled then activate the O2 it will be all whacked out and you will have to retune it again of you want closed loop operation? hat sucks!

Yes Sir.. Found that out the hard way... Called doug thinking it was a bug and he told me that its written in the manual..

[soxfan143]

Originally Posted by Bugermass

Yes Sir.. Found that out the hard way... Called doug thinking it was a bug and he told me that its written in the manual..

Ridiculous. I thought you were supposed to tune in open loop then activate closed loop after you're done. At least that is what my local tuner/buddy does with K-pro and the S300.

[mucter]

Yeah, guess you just do the min / max STRIM hack instead. That's the FP version of disabling closed loop. Easy enough so nbd.

[BlueSi4]

It's funny that we just were talking about the ID's and RC's this past week. I actually was at this shop today and we were talking about the injectors and such, and he said he's switched to Bosch and ID injectors, he's been having problems with the RC's and getting them to idle properly, so all the cars he does now recommends the owners not to use RC injectors. He mentioned he hasn't had any problems with the ID's, they idle perfect.

So if so many people talk about a product, there's a reason why.

[Supa Ninja]

I have messing around with my fuel maps and IAT cranking compension map. My battery has taken a nose dive with cold wave but I may have gotten it. Next week I'm ordering a Deka and a PWJ battery mount. It's better but I still need keep plugging away at it. I wish I could have a accurate AFR reading while cranking that would make this simple. I'm using the 60 psi latencies but since my 1:1 FPR reduces fuel pressure in vacuum I think is one of the reasons I'm having difficulties. Tomorrow I'm going to put the check valve back on it and see if that makes it better. With the check valve I'll be at 60 psi all the time.