Compressor surge?/??

[dil2502]

ok i have a question. i was looking at bovs. and i figured out that i like the sound of compressor surge better. i was wondering how bad it would be to run 8-10psi without one (a bov) I only want 250-275whp. i searched around and didn't really find much info. i figure it should be ok because there are some factory turbo cars that don't use any type of bov (ford comes to mind first). any info would be great

ps i am purchasing the greddy turbo kit

[soxfan143]

Not having a BOV is a bad move bro. You will shorten the life of your turbo by half. The air smashing back at the compressor wheel is going to put some serious stress on the bearing and shaft journals and the seals will get really beat on. Especially at 8-10 psi. It also puts alot of strain on your silicone couplings and charge piping and all parts of the system. Also your throttle response and spool time from off and on throttle will be terrible. I would not recommend not using a BOV. If your worried about poor drivability and stalling recirculate the system. I'm in the process of doing that now. I just need to find a guy that I trust welding the fitting onto my charge pipe. Good luck in your decision.

[rileyrat]

I don't think its the state of emergency that soxfan is making it out to be. At 8-10 lbs. you should be ok for awhile without a bov.

To be honest BOV are pretty much junk and are a cheap means of releasing compressed intake air. They cause as much damage as they prevent making them pointless IMO.

Recirculating the compressed air is a much safer and more drivable set-up. CBVs (compressor bypass valves) don't create the noise of a BOV but are way better for any system.

BOVs won the early on popularity contest because early tuners tuned imports due to low income. In situations like that, cost always won over quality. Now days people are starting to see the need for quality parts.

[soxfan143]

Why bother "being ok for a while" and damage your turbo for a while then decide to go with a venting system after you've already beat on your turbo for a while? Why not prevent any possible problems and do it right the first time? Whether it's a BOV or a compressor bypass valve, they both do the same thing. If you buy a top of the line BOV most of them can be used in recirculating setups. I bought an adapter for my HKS SSQ that was only 12.00. It will work just as well as any CBV.

Look at all the top of the line european turbo cars now, Audi, Porsche and even VW are using CBV on their turbo systems. So why wouldn't he need to vent his system? I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to.

[rileyrat]

First off, if money is a consideration, running the set-up w/o any pressure release at the psi he is talking about isn't going to cause any life span altering damage if only done for a couple months or so.

Secondly I think you misunderstand what the difference is between a BOV and a CBV. the only thing different between the two is where they release the air to. I don't care how nice of a BOV you buy it will never perform as well as a quality CBV. Until you start recirculating the air.

The overall point is to keep the pressure from reaching back to the turbo. Both do this, but a CBV maintains the pressure for use, i.e. between shifts the pressure is saved so you don't have a lack of pressure once you reapply throttle.

These spikes and drops in pressure play hell on your car and a BOV only exsacerbates the problem. Even if you don't reuse the saved pressure and it just slowly dissipates it's still better for your engine.

Also, when you install the adapter for the HKS SSQ, it stops being a BOV and becomes a CBV making your point, well, pointless.

I'm not knocking you really, I'm knocking the abundance of poor information out there about what each part does. Seems to be a lack of knowledge when it comes to what a part really is and how it works.

[soxfan143]

First off I don't misunderstand the difference between the two types of compressor surge valves. I'm sorry if I didn't point out that the HKS with adapter is a CBV. I think everyone can figure that out when I say it's recirculating. A recirculating BOV IS a CBV. I'm just merely pointing out that I would rather save my turbo than keep pressure between shifts. Did you not read the part of my first post where I said to recirculate the system if you are worried about poor drivability. Stop trying to make an ass out of me to try and show how smart you are. And the only difference between a CBV and BOV is where the air goes when it vents. So there really isn't THAT much of a difference. The only time you need to use a CBV is in a Mass Airflow fuel system. Why would you need a CBV in a speed density fuel system? If the BOV is set right with the proper spring setting it will hold enough pressure between shifts in a speed density setup to keep everything working fine. There are a million cars out there using vented BOV's in speed density setups.

[Asif22]

Compressor surge is bad....It's a force that is pushing the compressor wheel the opposite way once that throttle body closes. I personally think blow off valves sound awesome but there are blow off valves I'v seen that sound somewhat like compressor surge if you want to go that route. But please get a blow off valve that is recirculated so you don't stress out everything in your turbo set up. Not only that you will rape your performance lol

[rileyrat]

I see now, it's ok for you to attack me and try to make me look like an ass but when the favor is returned its bad?

Putting simple ego aside for a second you completely missed anything stated. I used terms like "for a while" "a couple of months or so" meaning if it was done short term no noticable damage would be done to the system and it would work for it's normal life span.

At no time in your posts did you connect the line for someone between a BOV and a CBV. In fact you did just the opposite, "Will work just as well" is what you said. I was connecting point A to point B for someone.

As for "millions using BOV" yes that is true. Doesn't mean that recirculating the pressure wouldn't be better for it. It also doesn't mean that a BOV set-up will last as long as a CBV.

Now back to your flame, physically they are nearly identical, performance wise they are worlds apart. Some systems can cope with the BOV better than others yes. Fact remains that the valve works the same between the two, the application of the valve is different, making them different.

I spent exactly zero time trying to make you look like an ass. I never attacked you personally and even clarified that it wasn't an attack on you but the information. If you would like a personal attack no problem.

Learn to freaking read. Learn to properly put information out. Learn what a part is and what it does so next time you don't have to back petal to save a little face.

Might also help to find out what constructive criticism is and how it applies in the above situation. The only person that made an ass of you was you. Can imagine you are also the kind of person that knocks the game board over when you start losing or "lets off" when you realize you can't win a race.

[soxfan143]

Ya you really got me figured out......All I'm saying is you really didn't have to use me as an example. I was just merely making a general statement about releasing compressor surge. And just because I didn't distinguish between using a CBV and BOV you went all technical on me. I just used the term BOV because that's what everyone uses as a term for venting compressor surge. I've already posted a ton on the advantages of using a CBV instead of a BOV in numerous other threads here. And I'm sorry if I was an ass I just got a little upset that you think I don't know what I'm talking about. I just didn't get super in depth on the subject. I just wanted to make a broad suggestion and use basic terminology in my description. I apologize for getting upset bro. That was uncalled for......

[rileyrat]

Don't worry man, I just hate sending newer guys out half cocked. Ends up taking way more time to get them straight later. Sorry if you got used as an example but due to lack of others posting on his thread you were all I had.

Just so everyone knows, I have read many things you posted already and you do tend to give good info, I'm just trying to give that little extra so everyone can get to the same sheet of music is all. I do apologize if I struck a nerve with you.

[dil2502]

i know what compressor surge is and why they say it is bad, but why is it that some factory cars don't use bov's and are just fine (87-88 ford turbocoupe comes to mind)

it really isn't a money issue. im not in a rush i have school and shit so i am waiting till i get everything together (boost controller, wideband a/f sensor and gauge, catch can, bov, etc,etc) before i start trying to put it on. i just like the way compressor surge sounds, call me weird idk. i quess hks ssqv it is more time to wait

[dil2502]

Originally Posted by rileyrat

Don't worry man, I just hate sending newer guys out half cocked. Ends up taking way more time to get them straight later.

...lets check join dates

[TopSecretSI]

You need a BOV, if you dont get one then your turbo life will be half of what it could be. Im not even going to read everyone elses reply's because im sure they feel the same. If you cant afford a BOV then dont buy a turbo kit. And please dont compare our cars and turbos to fords.

[soxfan143]

Originally Posted by rileyrat

Don't worry man, I just hate sending newer guys out half cocked. Ends up taking way more time to get them straight later. Sorry if you got used as an example but due to lack of others posting on his thread you were all I had.

Just so everyone knows, I have read many things you posted already and you do tend to give good info, I'm just trying to give that little extra so everyone can get to the same sheet of music is all. I do apologize if I struck a nerve with you.

That's cool bro. We're all here for the same reasons. Tolearn as much as we can and try to help others as much as we can.

[rileyrat]

Originally Posted by dil2502

...lets check join dates

hehe I was referencing the field not the forum. I've been working on f/i motors for nearly 14 years.

[dil2502]

Originally Posted by rileyrat

hehe I was referencing the field not the forum. I've been working on f/i motors for nearly 14 years.

thats longer than me

[dil2502]

Originally Posted by TopSecretSI

If you cant afford a BOV then dont buy a turbo kit. And please dont compare our cars and turbos to fords.

why is this everyones first conclusion...i'm pretty sure in the first post i said i like the way compressor surge sounds, i know it is wierd, i must be the only one who thinks that

[TopSecretSI]

Originally Posted by dil2502

why is this everyones first conclusion...i'm pretty sure in the first post i said i like the way compressor surge sounds, i know it is wierd, i must be the only one who thinks that

I like the compressor surge sound to but im only making a statement.
No big deal

[Excalibur]

Get a recirculating bov

[soxfan143]

Don't say that, A recirculating BOV is a CBV. I said the same thing you did and I got flamed. Please use the correct terminology or you will get lit on fire and thrown in the dumpster!!!! Hehehehe........Stop spreading misinformation....Hahahahaha.....