DIY ** NST Civic SI underdrive pulleys

[GlxyGry06Si]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

I could not have removed my crank pulley without the hex tool. It took 2 people and 2, 3 foot breaker bars to get that nut loose.

so we need the hex tool? where do we get one at? i dont know if the hobby shop has one.

[MutantCheese]

eBay Motors: Honda/Acura Crank Pulley Removal Tool 50mm (item 160250041690 end time Jun-18-08 11:38:04 PDT)

[MutantCheese]

possibly, if you didn't mind destroying the stock pulley, you may be able to grab one of the edges with a large vise grip...I wouldn't try it tho.

Oh, try autozone. They loan tools. This tool is very common and is used on any honda/acura since the mid 90's.

[GlxyGry06Si]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

eBay Motors: Honda/Acura Crank Pulley Removal Tool 50mm (item 160250041690 end time Jun-18-08 11:38:04 PDT)

o nice. something i dont have and something i need. can it be done without it? im sure there is a way? thats rediculous.

[Ainokea_Si]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

eBay Motors: Honda/Acura Crank Pulley Removal Tool 50mm (item 160250041690 end time Jun-18-08 11:38:04 PDT)

that one does not say our civic but that is the correct one?

[MutantCheese]

They are all the same since the mid 90's, Honda and Acura.

I borrowed the one I used from my neighbor that is a Honda tech at my local dealer.

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted by Whocares05050

Dont think so. I had to use the breaker bar method FYI after 7 differant air guns, and 2 differant tanks of air couldnt get it off.

I've never used the term "FTW" before but the starter trick is FTW!!! Throw some MF's or whatever in there if you'd like

I knew the crank pulley bolt removal could be my sticking point so I hit it up with liquid wrench (which I didn't think would matter since the car is less than 6 months old and I live in the desert, so no rust, but why not try?) and boosted my regulator to match the 155 PSI shut off of my compressor which has something like a 20 gallon tank and used the heavy chrome-vanadium compressor sockets and no extension to deliver maximum impact to the bolt and even tried the good ol' "tighten then loosen" trick all to no avail. By the way, the air wrench I've got it rated to 90 PSI so I wore a face shield to give me some sort of protection if the thing blew up in my face under 155 PSI.

From there I figured I'd give the starter trick a try and braced a breaker bar against the suspension between it and the steering linkage. All I did was blip the starter as quickly as I could and then hit the bolt with my air wrench and it spun right off! This beats my back up plan of going on base to the auto hobby shop and borrowing their BFW.

From there I pulled the cross member and the belt (which is seriously easy with the tensioner pulley vs. previous Hondas I've worked on). The alternator wasn't that bad once I got past the idea of actually removing it from the engine bay (how the heck does one actually get the alternator ALL of the way out if needed?). I had to use an offset 7/8" wrench (I know 22MM is the right size but I had this offset lying around from an alternator pulley installation YEARS ago and it does the job). Putting on the alternator pulley was a different story since that bad boy is tiny and my offset wrench couldn't get inside so I had to find a somewhat safe spot to insert a screwdriver to stop alternator rotation and then carefully applied the necessary torque (do this at your own risk and don't complain to mom if you gouge the winding or any other sensitive part inside your alternator).

Now the fun part. I though this wasn't bad at all until I decided it was time to put the idler pulley on. How hard can it be? Heck, only three steps to remove and replace according to my service manual. WRONG!!! My Ingalls "Stiffy" bracket was interfering. So I spent the next 30 minutes pulling the damper off, removing the bracket, grinding the bracket with my "going to die any day" Dremel and a file and refitting it a few times to check clearance. Alright, all is well. I should be 'ing in less than an hour! WRONG AGAIN!!! The lower Stiffy bracket bolt corner was cutting in to the belt. Remove idler pulley, remove bolt, grind bolt, reinstall bolt and pulley. NOW I can finally put everything back together.

All in all it probably took me 4 hours from getting started through a test run. My guess is that I can get that down to 2 hours with the help of a friend and knowing a little bit more about how to do it, namely working the clearance issues up front.

It was late when I got done last night so I didn't have a chance to drive it until this morning and my short commute doesn't give me much chance to but I can say that they look nice (all you can really see is the idler) and I never saw voltage drop below 14.0 via my ScanGauge on the drive this morning.

[MutantCheese]

I think that you could change the alternator pulley with it still fully installed. I don't think that you need to remove it and if I had to do it again, I would try that first.

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted by GlxyGry06Si

so we need the hex tool? where do we get one at? i dont know if the hobby shop has one.

Just use the starter method. I'll take pictures when 07_HFP_Si and I do his later this week or weekend if you need a step by step. You'll still have the issue of removing the crank bolt in the future since the NST crank pulley doesn't have anything to insert the crank pulley removal tool in to. Maybe not an issue for you if you'll never have to take the pulley back off.

[GlxyGry06Si]

and which pulley do we need to do the starter thing with? the bottom one next to the wheel right?

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

I think that you could change the alternator pulley with it still fully installed. I don't think that you need to remove it and if I had to do it again, I would try that first.

With the right tools you could. You need the special wrench mentioned in the service manual or maybe one very good set of vise-grips clamped on the outside of the 19MM socket with a 10MM socket fed through the center.

[GlxyGry06Si]

Originally Posted by GlxyGry06Si

and which pulley do we need to do the starter thing with? the bottom one next to the wheel right?

bump for this question.

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted by GlxyGry06Si

and which pulley do we need to do the starter thing with? the bottom one next to the wheel right?

Yes. Be sure you're breaker bar is riding above the suspension "A" arm (what would be the lower arm on a wishbone setup) but below the steering link. You're breaker bar should sit just between the two. The suspension arm is what is going to counter the torque applied by the starter. Be sure to just blip the starter to make sure your car doesn't actually start. In the old days I bet folks just pulled the plug wires off the distributor or off of the plugs to keep from starting so I'm sure you could pull a fuse or somehow disable the ignition if you feel safer that way.

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted by OrdnanceMarine

Yes. Be sure you're breaker bar is riding above the suspension "A" arm (what would be the lower arm on a wishbone setup) but below the steering link. You're breaker bar should sit just between the two. The suspension arm is what is going to counter the torque applied by the starter. Be sure to just blip the starter to make sure your car doesn't actually start. In the old days I bet folks just pulled the plug wires off the distributor or off of the plugs to keep from starting so I'm sure you could pull a fuse or somehow disable the ignition if you feel safer that way.

For some reason the "Edit" feautre isn't working right now for me. "You're" should be "Your". Guess this will teach me to proof my posts before I press submit!

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

I could not have removed my crank pulley without the hex tool. It took 2 people and 2, 3 foot breaker bars to get that nut loose.

I know what you mean! When I did my '98 Civic to change the timing belt I rented a 1000+ lbf*ft 3/4" air wrench and had to use over 120 PSI to do it. That was after trying a $250 Craftsman 750 lbf*ft gun (I find good ways to justify tool purchases ) With my Accord I had to jack the car up as high as I could and have someone hold the brakes while the car was in gear and use an 18" pipe on my 24" breaker bar and that was not fun.

Go with the starter method. It was so easy I almost busted out laughing when the bolt just flew off when I put my air wrench on it after using the starter to break the torque.

[GlxyGry06Si]

just did the install. i had my buddy there and we looked like a bunch of monkeys ******* a coconut. we finished in 3 hours and 45 minutes. we took our sweet time. next time i do one of these it will only take 2ish hours. i can feel a little difference in throttle response. overall a pretty good mod. dont expect to feel anything on the butt dyno. im sure its there tho. the funny thing is that the hobby shop that i did the install at had the honda tool. they had no clue what it used for until i showed them the picture. we still did not use it tho. we used the starter trick. the hardest part actually is getting the alternator put back on.

[OrdnanceMarine]

So we got both sets of pulleys installed Friday evening. I had family coming in to town so I didn't have time to take pictures and help the guys out but if anyone has questions on how to do the install just PM me.

We did the starter trick on both cars and it worked like a champ both times with just the slightest engagement of the starter.

One new thing we discovered is that you *can* install the alternator pulley without taking out the cross member but unless you've got slim hands it's just plain easier and quicker to go ahead and remove the cross member. Of course the best way to do the alternator pulley is to have one of the shell wrenches so you can crack off the nut without even having to pull the alternator off of it's mounts but I wasn't in the "have" when it came to that tool so I just used an offset 7/8" wrench and hit the alternator shaft with a 10MM socket and my air wrench.

Both crank pulleys we did that night didn't slide right on the crank so I ended up aligning them, sliding in the key and then pressing them on using the crank bolt.

It ended up taking about three passes with a Dremel and a grinding bit to remove enough steel off of the Ingalls Stiffy bracket. A bench grinder would make very quick work of this but you could even do it with a fine/medium file which I had to use to clean up the machine work anyway.

Taking our time I think it was about 3 hours of actual working on the cars to get both of them done. Honda definitely did us a favor by using a tensioner pulley versus the manual tension that was applied to the alternator and power steering belts of past Hondas I've worked on. Getting the belt off of this car was as simple as using a 14MM box end wrench and slipping the handle of my jack over for leverage and control.

[bluek20z3]

Originally Posted by MADDOGSI

OK I finally got my pulleys from NST. So here it goes.

These are the Pulleys both the Crank and Alt. I have the water pump on order as well. That will take more work.The pump will need to be removed.The pulley is a press on.




First off need to start with lifting the car and setting it on jack stands.



Then you will need the tools. I used a 1/2 impact,3/8 air ratchet,3/8 and 1/2 wobble extension,3 inch 1/2 extension,3/8 swivel head ratchet,12mm socket,12mm wrench,small flat screw driver,1/2 drive 7/8 & 3/4 socket,air gun,serpentine belt tool bar and blue loc-tite.


Now remove the belt as shown.Use the serpentine belt tool to release the spring tensioner idle pulley.



Once the belt is removed, remove the right side front wheel to get to the crank pulley.You will need to remove the splash cover that is held on with push clips.The cover runs along the front bottom to the other wheel well.you will only need to remove the clips shown and the clips along the bottom and leave the clips in the other side and just let the cover hang back out of the way.



once cover is removed,remove the crank pulley.Use the 1/2 impact and 3/4 socket.The crank bolt is very tight. should look like this when removed.



Make sure you keep track of the key way as shown below.this will need to be reused. and goes where indicated above.^^



here is what the difference is from NST to stock.



Next make sure the front crank seal and the seal sleeve is cleaned and not damaged during install.



Should look like this when installed.Torque to 180 ft lbs.



Now on to the Alt. This is the Hard part.You will need to get to the bolts.One on top and 2 on the bottom as pointed in pic.loosen the top bolt only.take it out last.



to get to the bottom Alt. bolt you will have to come up from the bottom.



Or if you have an Air ratchet you can use 2 wobble extensions,12mm socket and come from the top. As shown. If not use the 12mm wrench from the bottom.




Once all bolts are removed.slide the Alt. at an angle like this.



Then use the 1/2 impact,wobble extension,3" extension and a 7/8 socket to get the nut loose.wrenches will not due the trick here.Must use impact if at all possible.



Remove the stock pulley and install the NST pulley.




Now reinstall the Alt. back in place.Apply a small bit of loc-tite blue to threads to help keep tight.Install the top bolt first hand tight.follow with the bottom 2 and tighten bolts.
Now your ready for the belt.You will need a shorter belt. about 20 mm short. Gates # K070640 which is 1625 mm long.stock belt is 1646 mm long.
Feed the belt in place.Go from the fender well to help slip the belt in place.



Your all done. reinstall the splash cover and wheel.Then remove jack stand and set on ground.

My take on this upgrade.After some drive time.The best way to describe it.The car feels more snappy.More noticeable in 1st and 2nd.Quicker responce.Which is a plus for the DBW. So if you wanted something that could give you better responce in throttle.I would say this is a cheap upgrade.
I like it.

NEW UPDATED IDLER PULLEY TO KEEP THE STOCK BELT


OK boys and girls here is the latest from the guys at NST and some cooperation from myself for the FG2.This is the new Idler pulley to go with the crank and Alt to be able to keep the stock belt.

First and very needed to do this is a serpentine belt tool.this is needed to give the clearance between the tool and the pulley during the install of the new idler pulley.



Next remove the belt.With a 14mm socket, loosen and remove the idler pulley.



Now for the new pulley.See the size difference from stock to NST.





Next with the belt in place, position the NST pulley with the belt over it so it can be installed back in place as shown.you will need to move the tensioner and install the pulley/belt together.there is not enough room between the engine mount and pulley to put the belt on after the idler pulley is in place.Install the pulley over the stub shaft.Install the bolt and torque the bolt to 28 ftlbs +/- 2 ftlb.DO NOT reuse the black washer it will not fit this pulley and is not needed.



after that it should look like this.Now dont worry about the clearance. there is a 2mm gap between the mount and pulley.since these are two stationary points the gap will never change.but the belt is 3mm thick, which just doesn't quite squeeze in.



If a guy wanted too he could grind and polish a bit off the mount to be able to take the belt off with pulley still on and for a bit more clearance,but again there is no need too.after that you have one sexy looking pulley set and that uses the stock belt.so no need to try to go and find a shorter belt now.

i can't see the pic's but when you buy the kit it dose come with some instruc. i asume

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted by bluek20z3

i can't see the pic's but when you buy the kit it dose come with some instruc. i asume

No instructions in the three kits I worked with.

[EnvyMySi]

can some1 please repost the pics here ???