DIY ** NST Civic SI underdrive pulleys

[Tastycakes]

Quick question

If you under drive the crank and over drive the alternator you get stock speed no? (which you dont want to under drive the alternator anyways)

So the only thing your under driving is the water pump? Isn't that bad? (and the AC if its turned on)

And if you put the pulley on the water pump the only thing being under driven is the AC

Also does the TSX have Electric Power Steering? If not they there would be the main gain in HP probably on the TSX.

[8civic]

Originally Posted by Tastycakes

Quick question

If you under drive the crank and over drive the alternator you get stock speed no? (which you dont want to under drive the alternator anyways)

So the only thing your under driving is the water pump? Isn't that bad? (and the AC if its turned on)

And if you put the pulley on the water pump the only thing being under driven is the AC

Also does the TSX have Electric Power Steering? If not they there would be the main gain in HP probably on the TSX.

Ask them on AIM, NSTonAIM, and they will be able to explain it for you more than I can. But here goes anyway. The crank pulley should be thought of as the sender pulley. The sender pulley dictates how much HP is sent to drive all the accessories. The underdrive crank pulley will send less power to drive your accessories and this is how you get extra HP to the wheels.

Then when you swap out the alternator pulley to an overdrive one you are speeding the alternator up a bit to bring it up and make it more efficient. This does NOT cancel the HP gains that were freed up by the crank. The crank pulley is still sending less power to the alternator pulley, but now with a new pulley the alternator needs less power to do it's job.

These guys have been designing pulleys for a while, and it is all they do. They do enough R&D to make sure their products work properly. They would not sell crap that would make them look bad in the long run and their make them go bankrupt, now would they?

I hope you were able to follow all of this.

[MADDOGSI]

To add a bit to 8civic. Alot of the Hp gained is in the weight of the pulleys.Lighter pulleys has less parasitic drag which translates to less HP to turn.This then transmits more power thru the crank and on to the ground.Also by changing the pulley size is for say like changing gear ratio.Adding a small crank pulley helps transmit torque to the accessories as well as less mass for rotational drag.Now with the accessories turning at a slower rate(underdrive) drops the force needed to turn them which free's up HP.Since the Alt is slowed down, the charge rate is decreased.Now add a smaller pulley(less mass=Hp) to the Alt to speed it back up.with a small crank pulley it now spins faster,with a smaller Alt too the ratio now is faster then the stock ratio.hence the term overdrive.

[MADDOGSI]

Originally Posted by Tastycakes

Quick question


So the only thing your under driving is the water pump? Isn't that bad? (and the AC if its turned on)

And if you put the pulley on the water pump the only thing being under driven is the AC

slowing down the water pump the right amount is really a good thing. BY slowing down the water pump impeller helps decrease water cavitation.Cavitation is the bad thing.Aerated water creates foaming in the coolant system which decreases the ability of the water to transfer heat,there for can cause overheating.Also If the water passes thru the radiator too quickly,heat is not dissipated, but kept in the coolant to pass back into the engine not cooling it at all.Slowing the water flow down just a bit helps that heat transfer from the coolant thru the radiator and off into the air.

[Tastycakes]

Ok that cleared things up a bit. Not to jack your thread but i wonder how much HP you'd save w/ an electric water pump.

[Sirbelch]

Has anyone heard anything from the RSX-S camp about lighter under drive pullies buring crank bearings? I know the old B18C1 in GSR's had this risk. I really want unorthdox's pully set cause rotating weight is the heavest of all weights. I think for every pound of rotating weight you take out of the tires is like removing that weight x 1.5 and anything on the engine is more than that. I think.

[BATANG CITY JAIL]

yo..hows the pully?

[MADDOGSI]

bump bump new updates
see begining of the thread and this link.

** NEW NST idler pulley for the FG2 SI

[CaliGuy]

Originally Posted by Tastycakes

Ok that cleared things up a bit. Not to jack your thread but i wonder how much HP you'd save w/ an electric water pump.

[MADDOGSI]

^^ nop it is belt driven.

[blaznhot_23]

how much for the nst kit??? and how long does it take to get it once ordered???

[fiji06si13]

Originally Posted by MADDOGSI

OK I finally got my pulleys from NST. So here it goes.

These are the Pulleys both the Crank and Alt. I have the water pump on order as well. That will take more work.The pump will need to be removed.The pulley is a press on.




First off need to start with lifting the car and setting it on jack stands.



Then you will need the tools. I used a 1/2 impact,3/8 air ratchet,3/8 and 1/2 wobble extension,3 inch 1/2 extension,3/8 swivel head ratchet,12mm socket,12mm wrench,small flat screw driver,1/2 drive 7/8 & 3/4 socket,air gun,serpentine belt tool bar and blue loc-tite.


Now remove the belt as shown.Use the serpentine belt tool to release the spring tensioner idle pulley.



Once the belt is removed, remove the right side front wheel to get to the crank pulley.You will need to remove the splash cover that is held on with push clips.The cover runs along the front bottom to the other wheel well.you will only need to remove the clips shown and the clips along the bottom and leave the clips in the other side and just let the cover hang back out of the way.



once cover is removed,remove the crank pulley.Use the 1/2 impact and 3/4 socket.The crank bolt is very tight. should look like this when removed.



Make sure you keep track of the key way as shown below.this will need to be reused. and goes where indicated above.^^



here is what the difference is from NST to stock.



Next make sure the front crank seal and the seal sleeve is cleaned and not damaged during install.



Should look like this when installed.Torque to 180 ft lbs.



Now on to the Alt. This is the Hard part.You will need to get to the bolts.One on top and 2 on the bottom as pointed in pic.loosen the top bolt only.take it out last.



to get to the bottom Alt. bolt you will have to come up from the bottom.



Or if you have an Air ratchet you can use 2 wobble extensions,12mm socket and come from the top. As shown. If not use the 12mm wrench from the bottom.




Once all bolts are removed.slide the Alt. at an angle like this.



Then use the 1/2 impact,wobble extension,3" extension and a 7/8 socket to get the nut loose.wrenches will not due the trick here.Must use impact if at all possible.



Remove the stock pulley and install the NST pulley.




Now reinstall the Alt. back in place.Apply a small bit of loc-tite blue to threads to help keep tight.Install the top bolt first hand tight.follow with the bottom 2 and tighten bolts.
Now your ready for the belt.You will need a shorter belt. about 20 mm short. Gates # K070640 which is 1625 mm long.stock belt is 1646 mm long.
Feed the belt in place.Go from the fender well to help slip the belt in place.



Your all done. reinstall the splash cover and wheel.Then remove jack stand and set on ground.

My take on this upgrade.After some drive time.The best way to describe it.The car feels more snappy.More noticeable in 1st and 2nd.Quicker responce.Which is a plus for the DBW. So if you wanted something that could give you better responce in throttle.I would say this is a cheap upgrade.
I like it.

NEW UPDATED IDLER PULLEY TO KEEP THE STOCK BELT


OK boys and girls here is the latest from the guys at NST and some cooperation from myself for the FG2.This is the new Idler pulley to go with the crank and Alt to be able to keep the stock belt.

First and very needed to do this is a serpentine belt tool.this is needed to give the clearance between the tool and the pulley during the install of the new idler pulley.



Next remove the belt.With a 14mm socket, loosen and remove the idler pulley.



Now for the new pulley.See the size difference from stock to NST.





Next with the belt in place, position the NST pulley with the belt over it so it can be installed back in place as shown.you will need to move the tensioner and install the pulley/belt together.there is not enough room between the engine mount and pulley to put the belt on after the idler pulley is in place.Install the pulley over the stub shaft.Install the bolt and torque the bolt to 28 ftlbs +/- 2 ftlb.DO NOT reuse the black washer it will not fit this pulley and is not needed.



after that it should look like this.Now dont worry about the clearance. there is a 2mm gap between the mount and pulley.since these are two stationary points the gap will never change.but the belt is 3mm thick, which just doesn't quite squeeze in.



If a guy wanted too he could grind and polish a bit off the mount to be able to take the belt off with pulley still on and for a bit more clearance,but again there is no need too.after that you have one sexy looking pulley set and that uses the stock belt.so no need to try to go and find a shorter belt now.

Yes!

[MADDOGSI]

Originally Posted by blaznhot_23

how much for the nst kit??? and how long does it take to get it once ordered???

Well a kit price is not set yet. It will be a few weeks before the full kit is ready. Right now have to order the crank and Alt. separately. the wait time right now for the pulleys is 3-4 weeks.BUt in the next 4-5 weeks the full kit will be ready and in stock. I say just wait until then and only have to wait a few days for ship time then. stay tuned to their website for the latest.
http://www.nonstoptuning.com/pKitHonCiv.htm

[Htuner34]

nice! that'll definitly come in handy

[blaznhot_23]

Originally Posted by MADDOGSI

Well a kit price is not set yet. It will be a few weeks before the full kit is ready. Right now have to order the crank and Alt. separately. the wait time right now for the pulleys is 3-4 weeks.BUt in the next 4-5 weeks the full kit will be ready and in stock. I say just wait until then and only have to wait a few days for ship time then. stay tuned to their website for the latest.
http://www.nonstoptuning.com/pKitHonCiv.htm

if you order the two pulleys seperately do you get the idler pulley???

check out this thread ...1st post

NST Pulley Update!!!

[MADDOGSI]

^^ once some more R&D is done with the idler pulley it will be released for everyone. The best way to answer this question is to talk to MIke from NST on AIM which is NSTonAIM and he can tell you how he plans to do the idler pulley. I dont want to answer for him on this.What I do know for sure is that all the currant owners of the crank and Alt pulleys will get the idler pulley for free. All new orders I'm not sure hows he plans to do it.

[blaznhot_23]

^^^ how often is he online???

[MADDOGSI]

I will get ahold of NST and try to get more info for everyone.

[MADDOGSI]

Originally Posted by blaznhot_23

^^^ how often is he online???

Almost everyday off and on. nothing consistant. just have to keep checking AIM.

[blaznhot_23]

^^^ i'll look for them over the weekend....

thx maddog!!!