Official FlashPro & AccessPORT Comparison

Silversweet09 · 12-16-2009, 09:37 PM

I am pleased to announce that we are now complete with our Hondata & Cobb product comparison for the FlashPro & AccessPORT!

Below you will find a list of all the respective product features and availability as of December 16th, 2009. Some of this might be overbearing at first (was for me) as there are many features these products offer & some may not be intuitive for the average product user.

I’d like to use this thread for the purposes of exploring everything that these products have to offer. If you have any questions around what something means, please ask the question here so we can keep track of explanations easier.

Note: Vendor bashing in this thread will be reported to Moderators immediately!

There are a couple items that need clarification, i.e. whether the AccessPort's MPG display is actual or estimated.

Lastly, I am committed to updating this thread as long as Hondata & Cobb supply me with updates. Kudos to Hondata & Cobb for being willing to collaborate on this project!

Hondata & Cobb - please feel free to add any commentary needed.

Thanks!

Edit - The section stating the amount of calibrations each offers in my document is a hyperlink to their websites detailing the calibrations. Since this is currently a pic, I can't embed the links. If anyone knows a way around this, let me know.

==================================================

***mucter*** · 12-16-2009, 09:41 PM

wow. I can see why this took so long. Great work guys!

***Hondata*** · 12-16-2009, 09:41 PM

Thanks Pete, for your effort in compiling this comparison.

Tables
We choose not to expose many of the tables as they do not serve any useful purpose.

Tables like the minimum and maximum ignition advance, for example, are way outside the values you would ever need for tuning, so never need to be changed.

The Baro sensor multiplier and Offset allow you to replace the Barometric pressure sensor (altitude sensor). This however requires you disassemble the ECU (which is very hard to do without damaging it) to replace the sensor. We cannot think of any reason to replace this sensor - nor to replace the ECT (Engine Coolant Temp) and IAT sensors (Intake Air Temp - which is integrated in to the AFM) with differently scaled sensors.

Automatically applied values
In some cases fewer things to edit is better. For example, editing the rev limiter in FlashProManager involves changing two numbers - the engage and disengage values. The other four values (high cam and low cam engage and disengage) are automatically updated.

Editing Help
In many cases when editing the 4 dimensional tables (fuel, igntion, knock) you want to apply the same change over all the tables (for the different cam angles). This is possible using FlashProManager, which saves editing an additional 4 tables for each change.

Our take
We realize this chart is very detailed, so we have put together our own abbreviated comparison on the Hondata Web site that highlights the aspects we think important.

***mucter*** · 12-16-2009, 10:07 PM

I would personally like to comment on the Base Pulse Width table claim by Cobb. From my own firsthand experience, this does not work correctly.

***mucter*** · 12-16-2009, 10:10 PM

Also, and I know this isn't really my business, but for clarification's sake. It should be noted that there are 2 different versions of the AccessPORT for the Si. The 2 different versions have distinctly different flash times.

Silversweet09 · 12-16-2009, 10:12 PM

Mucter - thanks for the feedback. I'll check with Cobb as they input the values within the framework.

***mucter*** · 12-16-2009, 10:18 PM

No problem, there is a AP2va and an AP2vb.

The AP2va flashes in about 4.5-5 minutes.
The AP2vb flashes in about 1.5 minutes.

Definitely get clarification from them directly. They've confirmed this data with me in the past via e-mail and in person so they should definitely have something to say on the matter.

Teegs · 12-16-2009, 10:19 PM

great work silver. some good info.

***soxfan143*** · 12-16-2009, 10:20 PM

What is Intake cam phasing OL? What does the OL stand for?

Edit: Never mind. It means open loop doesn't it? lol

***mucter*** · 12-16-2009, 10:21 PM

Open Loop, Cobb exposes the specific tables that are separate for Open Loop conditions within the ECU. Hondata merges them into a single table since the high load portions of the table are Open Loop anyways. It's just a different approach to the same thing.

***soxfan143*** · 12-16-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mucter

Open Loop, Cobb exposes the specific tables that are separate for Open Loop conditions within the ECU. Hondata merges them into a single table since the high load portions of the table are Open Loop anyways. It's just a different approach to the same thing.

Cool. Thanks Jay. Good explanation.

Silversweet09 · 12-16-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxfan143

What is Intake cam phasing OL? What does the OL stand for?

Edit: Never mind. It means open loop doesn't it? lol

Nevermind, you got your answer! If that's not right, my guess is Over Lap...

killak20z3R · 12-16-2009, 10:44 PM

which one will be the best for my Si

Teegs · 12-16-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killak20z3R

which one will be the best for my Si

that is the point of this thread. This lists the info on both so you can make up your own mind.

Silversweet09 · 12-16-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teegs

that is the point of this thread. This lists the info on both so you can make up your own mind.

Thank you!

***JEA86*** · 12-17-2009, 12:29 AM

good job

***VitViper*** · 12-17-2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killak20z3R

which one will be the best for my Si

FlashPro.

megrog2 · 12-17-2009, 12:56 AM

where are these 57 other online maps located Hondata is talking about? I feel like I need a crib note sheet to read this chart successfully LOL. Great work though thanks for the all the effort.

Poweraide · 12-17-2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitViper

FlashPro.

Come on dude. They way I see it.. ITS VERY CLOSE. I know you are hard up for Hondata. But give Cobb a bone for what they have done.

***VitViper*** · 12-17-2009, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poweraide

Come on dude. They way I see it.. ITS VERY CLOSE. I know you are hard up for Hondata. But give Cobb a bone for what they have done.

Very close in what respect? I don't want to start a flame war, but let me point out a couple of HUGE points that Cobb is lacking on:

- Injector support (it doesn't currently work even though they list it in their comparison)
- Forced Induction support
- Live tuning
- Rev hang is not fixed with Cobb (I don't care if they claim it is... I've got over half a dozen people that switched from TUNED Cobb AP setups to FPro basemaps amazed at how rev hang is actually gone with Hondata)

Those are some huge points. Anyone even planning on doing any serious mods is going to be sorely disappointed by what Cobb currently has to offer.

It's not like I haven't seen both products... I have.

12-16-2009, 09:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
Silversweet09 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Age: 30 Posts: 1,762 Pete	Official FlashPro & AccessPORT Comparison I am pleased to announce that we are now complete with our Hondata & Cobb product comparison for the FlashPro & AccessPORT! Below you will find a list of all the respective product features and availability as of December 16th, 2009. Some of this might be overbearing at first (was for me) as there are many features these products offer & some may not be intuitive for the average product user. I’d like to use this thread for the purposes of exploring everything that these products have to offer. If you have any questions around what something means, please ask the question here so we can keep track of explanations easier. Note: Vendor bashing in this thread will be reported to Moderators immediately! There are a couple items that need clarification, i.e. whether the AccessPort's MPG display is actual or estimated. Lastly, I am committed to updating this thread as long as Hondata & Cobb supply me with updates. Kudos to Hondata & Cobb for being willing to collaborate on this project! Hondata & Cobb - please feel free to add any commentary needed. Thanks! Edit - The section stating the amount of calibrations each offers in my document is a hyperlink to their websites detailing the calibrations. Since this is currently a pic, I can't embed the links. If anyone knows a way around this, let me know. ================================================== Last edited by Silversweet09; 12-17-2009 at 10:07 AM.
	Tweet

12-16-2009, 09:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
*Hondata* 8thcivic Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 655	Hondata Comments Thanks Pete, for your effort in compiling this comparison. Tables We choose not to expose many of the tables as they do not serve any useful purpose. Tables like the minimum and maximum ignition advance, for example, are way outside the values you would ever need for tuning, so never need to be changed. The Baro sensor multiplier and Offset allow you to replace the Barometric pressure sensor (altitude sensor). This however requires you disassemble the ECU (which is very hard to do without damaging it) to replace the sensor. We cannot think of any reason to replace this sensor - nor to replace the ECT (Engine Coolant Temp) and IAT sensors (Intake Air Temp - which is integrated in to the AFM) with differently scaled sensors. Automatically applied values In some cases fewer things to edit is better. For example, editing the rev limiter in FlashProManager involves changing two numbers - the engage and disengage values. The other four values (high cam and low cam engage and disengage) are automatically updated. Editing Help In many cases when editing the 4 dimensional tables (fuel, igntion, knock) you want to apply the same change over all the tables (for the different cam angles). This is possible using FlashProManager, which saves editing an additional 4 tables for each change. Our take We realize this chart is very detailed, so we have put together our own abbreviated comparison on the Hondata Web site that highlights the aspects we think important. __________________ For FlashPro support visit our forum

12-16-2009, 10:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
*soxfan143* VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lynnfield, MA Age: 37 Posts: 9,956 Mike	What is Intake cam phasing OL? What does the OL stand for? Edit: Never mind. It means open loop doesn't it? lol Last edited by soxfan143; 12-16-2009 at 10:22 PM.

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12-16-2009, 09:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
*mucter* Jay Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,088	wow. I can see why this took so long. Great work guys!

12-16-2009, 10:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
*mucter* Jay Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,088	I would personally like to comment on the Base Pulse Width table claim by Cobb. From my own firsthand experience, this does not work correctly.

12-16-2009, 10:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
*mucter* Jay Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,088	Also, and I know this isn't really my business, but for clarification's sake. It should be noted that there are 2 different versions of the AccessPORT for the Si. The 2 different versions have distinctly different flash times.

12-16-2009, 10:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
Silversweet09 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Age: 30 Posts: 1,762 Pete	Mucter - thanks for the feedback. I'll check with Cobb as they input the values within the framework.

12-16-2009, 10:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
*mucter* Jay Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,088	No problem, there is a AP2va and an AP2vb. The AP2va flashes in about 4.5-5 minutes. The AP2vb flashes in about 1.5 minutes. Definitely get clarification from them directly. They've confirmed this data with me in the past via e-mail and in person so they should definitely have something to say on the matter.

12-16-2009, 10:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
Teegs Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southern Cali Posts: 3,262 Matt	great work silver. some good info.

12-16-2009, 10:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
*mucter* Jay Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,088	Open Loop, Cobb exposes the specific tables that are separate for Open Loop conditions within the ECU. Hondata merges them into a single table since the high load portions of the table are Open Loop anyways. It's just a different approach to the same thing.

12-16-2009, 10:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
killak20z3R Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fresno Killa Cali (559) Age: 28 Posts: 279 James Capps (amesoner)	which one will be the best for my Si

12-17-2009, 12:29 AM	#16 (permalink)
*JEA86* Si-Onara Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Glen Daniel WV Age: 25 Posts: 5,879 Jeremy	good job

12-17-2009, 12:56 AM	#18 (permalink)
megrog2 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 365	where are these 57 other online maps located Hondata is talking about? I feel like I need a crib note sheet to read this chart successfully LOL. Great work though thanks for the all the effort.

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