R18 is plenty fast for me.

[maximo61170]

dont forget insurance

[ryker]

Originally Posted by habitat

The math I used is very basic yes, it assumes many more variables than of the equations you've stated above. Still, you've stated no real mathematical calculations, rather pasted images from some how-to website.


Finally, all you who still want to believe that ryker's comprehensive equations will somehow put the Civic in front of the better equipped Odyssey can stop dreaming. Yea, Civic EX 5A is slower than fully equipped Odyssey, who cares the MATH that I've stated proves that this is understandable due to the weight/power advantage of the Odyssey.

Your math is way to simple to prove anything. The numbers you show has the much higher advantage of peak power to weight Odessey only .2 Quicker in the one selected source and you ignore the other source that has the Civic R18 as quicker despite your simple math.

Second this is not my math. It was the math created a few hundred years ago. A guy by the name of newton.

Accelerating a Car

Newton's second law of motion states that the acceleration of a body is related to the force being applied and the mass of the body.





Your simple minded math only uses one single peak power (force) number. But in case you've noticed are cars are not equiped with a CVT trans and the RPMS vary along with gear torque multiplication.


To get the force you need to follow this math break down.


Lotus Elise Information, Shift Points, Chart

Then apply the division of weight to get the g-force.


What that is telling you is that your gears act as multipliers of engine torque and you need a nice flat torque band without any dips in power. What determines how fast you can accelerate is the amount of torque that reaches your rear wheel and that is determined by your gear ratios.

[splew]

Originally Posted by ryker

In a 100k of ownership at 3.75 a gallon and thats a low estimate because gas will only increase... The Si will cost an estimated $2100.00 MORE.

So 2k more in intial purchase and 2k more in fuel cost. 4k is what I spent on a nice ATV to play in the woods and mud holes.


Topic of this thread was the R18 is fast enough for me (thread starter). The few punk Si owners had to come in with the hate as if the Si was the only car in the world and when veetack kicks in it will smoke a Corvette.

Veetack? I'm pretty sure it's pronounced Vee-teck but thats okay. It's just funny cause you sound like this guy,

YouTube - HONDA V-TACH

[ryker]

There is more info on this subject of flat torque bands on sportbikes. Many 600cc bike produce the same peak HP and have near same weight and gears. Yet some 600cc sport bikes are much faster. Due to the correctly tuned engines that produce a flatter and thicker torque band.

[ryker]

Originally Posted by splew

Veetack? I'm pretty sure it's pronounced Vee-teck but thats okay.

witty language used to convey insults or scorn; "he used sarcasm to upset his opponent"; "irony is wasted on the stupid"; "Satire is a sort of ...
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


Mention Vteck on any non-honda chat board and 95% of the members will laugh at you and come back with the "veetack" "weetek" comments.

[splew]

Originally Posted by ryker

witty language used to convey insults or scorn; "he used sarcasm to upset his opponent"; "irony is wasted on the stupid"; "Satire is a sort of ...
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


Mention Vteck on any non-honda chat board and 95% of the members will laugh at you and come back with the "veetack" "weetek" comments.

Okay I see, did you watch the video? I think you would like it.

[habitat]

Originally Posted by ryker

Your math is way to simple to prove anything. The numbers you show has the much higher advantage of peak power to weight Odessey only .2 Quicker in the one selected source and you ignore the other source that has the Civic R18 as quicker despite your simple math.

Originally Posted by habitat

7.92 is pretty good for a 15k car.
But when I used the Odyssey for comparison, I pitted it against an Automatic Civic EX which looks more like this...

Above was my response to trickyazn's quicker Civic 0-60 time of just under 8 seconds. I could not find the exact article he was referring to, but I did discover that cars.com based it's review on the Civic EX w/ std 5spd manual transmission as I had originally suspected.
I hope I don't have to tell you that it is obvious a 5spd manual equipped Civic will most definitely beat an Odyssey.

What you seem to ignore is that although I'm lazy to use such a basic weight/power equation, I've proven my point by providing results from real road tests as my source. You on the other hand, still just post formulae without plugging in the variables. So ask yourself this, what is your argument with me?

If it's: habitat, you are lazy and your basic weight/power formula does not tell the complete story, then I agree with you.

If it's: habitat, my equations have been proven by Newton himself and will be more accurate in a more comprehensive test that includes a road course with turns to complement the R18s "flat" torque curve, then I agree with you.

If it's: habitat, my equations are the w1nn4r b/c yours are n00b and edmund's reviewers are t43 h4x0r, then you're being ignorant.

Originally Posted by ryker

What that is telling you is that your gears act as multipliers of engine torque and you need a nice flat torque band without any dips in power. What determines how fast you can accelerate is the amount of torque that reaches your rear wheel and that is determined by your gear ratios.

Again, I'm not arguing against your logic, what you're saying makes perfect sense. But you still argue that the R18 5A will beat an Odyssey in a straight line... why?

[trickyazn]

habitat he has ego problems with a van beating him going straight, but one day there will be an r18 vs a van race at some drag strip and we'll show him it so he can stop trying to defend himself and his little "van killer" r18

and in response to his 100k mile ownership cost with an si and r18, in 100k how long would you have had a car? possibly 5 years at minimum, if anything will be at a whopping $2.19 more a day for owning the car. for those who drives less, driven 100k for 8 years then it would cost $1.37 a day. this is including gas+higher vehicle cost. but your forgetting if you do sell the car, the SI would grant a better residual cost due to its model and worth, so technically the r18 doesnt cost MUCH more to own a SI. but honestly now, if your so into saving money per worth then a r18 wouldnt be your number one choice wouldnt it? youd consider a corolla or even a yaris as they would save you more money in the long run right? let me tell you this, is $1.37 dollars more a day worth a 8+k redline, 60 more crank horsepower, engine potential, actual vtec, better brakes, suspension, tires, aftermarket availability, interior design, and a spoiler STANDARD? most would say yes, people who dont absolutely care about a sporty feel car doesnt. if you modded your vehicle performance wise then chances are SI standard features would be more worth it to you. dont use price calculations with si vs r18 because unless you have no desire EVER to mod your r18 performance wise.

[CanyonDriver]

Originally Posted by Firestrife

sounds more like a self control issue than actually having the car that can do it. and the Evo can handle so i dont think that is a good versus. :/

word. evo's and most awd cars at that sh*t all over us all day every day when it comes to handling and grip. ESPECIALLY grip.

[habitat]

Originally Posted by CanyonDriver

word. evo's and most awd cars at that sh*t all over us all day every day when it comes to handling and grip. ESPECIALLY grip.

Yea most but my old GDA WRX handled like shit compared to my FG2. Damn thing understeered more than my FG2, every corner, under, under, under under, .

Down with vicious LSD, all praise Helical type!

Never drove an EVO, but that AYC looks like it works wonders.

[splew]

When you start naming sports cars the vast majority of them s**t all over your Si.

[jlannoo]

Originally Posted by trickyazn

, is $1.37 dollars more a day worth a 8+k redline, 60 more crank horsepower, engine potential, actual vtec, better brakes, suspension, tires, aftermarket availability, interior design, and a spoiler STANDARD? most would say yes, people who dont absolutely care about a sporty feel car doesnt. if you modded your vehicle performance wise then chances are SI standard features would be more worth it to you. dont use price calculations with si vs r18 because unless you have no desire EVER to mod your r18 performance wise.

Add traction and stability control to that list. Its VERY useful in poor weather.

[ryker]

Originally Posted by habitat

Weight/Power ratio:
Civic LX auto = 2718lbs / 140hp = 19.41
Honda Odyssey = 4385 lbs / 244hp = 17.97

With the above facts, we can conclude that the R18 is potentially slower than a Minivan in a straight line.

potentially slower ?? that was the statement you intially made about the Civic. Auto trans or not your simple minded math is not the correct method to judge if one car is slower or not. Very crude 2nd grade type math or something a car magazine from 1970's would use. The Auto trans r18 is mostly designed for pure economy. Your crude math doesn't take into account the fact that if the auto trans r18 had just an estimated 2% different final drive ratio the speeds would be the same - yet you stand by your crude math.

What you seem to ignore is that although I'm lazy to use such a basic weight/power equation, I've proven my point by providing results from real road tests as my source.

You got lucky in finding the odessy a whopping .2 seconds faster. Even that proves your point is wrong. The minivan has a pretty good peak power to wegith advantage. YET is only .2 seconds faster. As I said before the r18 auto is designed for econo mode. A simple change in gearing would erase that .2 seconds advantage. Then what would you think of your simple math?

You on the other hand, still just post formulae without plugging in the variables. So ask yourself this, what is your argument with me?

If I had the time and two accurate dyno sheets and a copy of both cars trans specs. It could be done.

But you still argue that the R18 5A will beat an Odyssey in a straight line... why?

I could care less what car wins on a straight line. I've owned several fast cars over the years and never once have I went WOT slamming gears in a 1/4 mile race. Modded Audi TT, Supercharged Lt1 Camaro with Callaway mods, BMW motorcycles, and a 120hp highly modded Buell street bike.....

Originally Posted by trickyazn

habitat he has ego problems with a van beating him going straight, but one day there will be an r18 vs a van race at some drag strip and we'll show him it so he can stop trying to defend himself and his little "van killer" r18

I paid cash for my EX. Trust me I don't have an ego issue with my car. If I wanted to race a minivan or a Si- I'd simply get the keys to my wifes Dinan MCS - look it up.


and in response to his 100k mile ownership cost with an si and r18, in 100k how long would you have had a car? possibly 5 years at minimum, if anything will be at a whopping $2.19 more a day for owning the car. for those who drives less, driven 100k for 8 years then it would cost $1.37 a day. this is including gas+higher vehicle cost. but your forgetting if you do sell the car, the SI would grant a better residual cost due to its model and worth, wait till gas prices continue to rise.. SUV resale value is tanked, next up will be cars like the Si. When gas prices hit 4.50-5.00 gallon in the next 12 month high performance cars will drop in value quickly so technically the r18 doesnt cost MUCH more to own a SI. If 3-5k is technicall to you. To me that 4k savings is what my Artic Cat 650 4x4 ATV cost me. but honestly now, if your so into saving money per worth then a r18 wouldnt be your number one choice wouldnt it? youd consider a corolla or even a yaris as they would save you more money in the long run right? The r18 is quicker, looks better, and is more sporty than those. To each his own. The Si is not the only car in the world!let me tell you this, is $1.37 dollars more a day worth a 8+k redline, 60 more crank horsepower, engine potential not really suited to my driving style. Since the k20 only has a slight torque advantge and would require I slam and bang through gears all the time. Cool when I was 18. Not now. , actual vtec, better brakes, suspension, tires, aftermarket availability, interior design, and a spoiler STANDARD? most would say yes, people who dont absolutely care about a sporty feel car doesnt. if you modded your vehicle performance wise then chances are SI standard features would be more worth it to you. dont use price calculations with si vs r18 because unless you have no desire EVER to mod your r18 performance wise. not every body has the desire to mod for more power. Or does so on the daily driver. I've got motorcyle, ATV's and plenty of guns that I mod. [/quote]

[Truplatano]

To be honest if i really wanted to go fast i wouldn't buy a si becuase of the weight, which is why im in the middle of getting a 90-93 integra, and using that as my track car, and leaving my ex to get to work.......

[trickyazn]

^^ i dont think anyone bought an si to go fast.

[Truplatano]

im sure some ppl did....

[LeonDinh]

after i took the subway, i know what fast is.

[habitat]

Originally Posted by ryker

You got lucky in finding the odessy a whopping .2 seconds faster. Even that proves your point is wrong. The minivan has a pretty good peak power to wegith advantage. YET is only .2 seconds faster. As I said before the r18 auto is designed for econo mode. A simple change in gearing would erase that .2 seconds advantage. Then what would you think of your simple math?

Again you argue with your same exact points. I give up, you win... at this point you'd believe your R18 can outrun a rocket. Sorry you're senile and argue with yourself.

[RReuphoria]

[ryker]

Originally Posted by Way2Short

Anyone with an R18 think the car is plenty fast? I keep reading you guys complaining that the car is slow but I guess you guys are probably comparing it to other cars. I think the fastest car I've ever driven was a G35 which was really nice so I don't know what fast is. Anyone else feel the same as I do?

Originally Posted by habitat

Again you argue with your same exact points. I give up, you win... at this point you'd believe your R18 can outrun a rocket. Sorry you're senile and argue with yourself.

The orginal thread is above. The r18 for most people is a nice "fast" economy type car. I never once claimed the r18 is faster than any other cars in a WOT drag race. The point is for most drivers and to match their driving style on the street in daily commutes the R18 is "fast enough for me".

I can count on one hand how many times I've went WOT in my Civic - why becuase it was fast enough for my driving conditions. Yes, the car is one of the slowest I've owned - however it is still "fast enough for me". Is it fast enough for you? That is a question you can't answer with math or stats.
I spent thousands on my last car to make it crazy fast and only raced it three times in almost three years. Most of the time I never used the power I paid for.