Why do you have to bleed brakes to change pads?

[hiphopaddict]

I had a not so pleasant experience at the dealer a few weeks ago thanks to some advice I got on this website. I kept seeing posts that said it was required to bleed the brakes if you changed brake pads on your car b/c of the ABS sensors. I drive 2007 FG2 BTW. I even read a couple of DIY's showing how to do it and to be honest it looked like such a pain in the ass and I had so little time, I decided to carry it to the dealer.
I figured I'd pay them $300 and let them "bleed away". Well being the idiot I am I took it as common knowledge (from reading SO many damn posts about it) that the tech manual states that it is necessary to bleed the brakes anytime pads are changed. I never even asked them if they were planning on bleeding them and I just dropped my car off. So basically I paid them $300 to put pads on a car when I own a home w/ a 2 car garage and all the tools necessary to do the job myself. In fact I would have preferred to do it myself b/c I would have put Hawk pads all the way around instead of OEM BS b/c of the $ savings. I am more than capable of putting on 2 sets of disk brakes. Drum are a PITA, but disk are a breeze...
The dealership tells me in all their years of doing business they have never bled a car's brakes just to put pads on it. I was so hot that I flipped out on them for a second but it's realistically not their fault.

I am interested in learning where the information came from w/ regards to the brakes needing to be bled to replace the pads? It cost me some serious coin, and at this point I think it's BS. If I'm wrong and you own the Honda Service Manual, scan a picture of the page which proves the dealer wrong.

[SiAzul]

I plan on changing my pads myself when they are worn out. I was told you didn't have to bleed the brakes if only changing pads

[sisean]

Honestly, I wouldn't take half the advice I see on forums....Take an automotive service class at a community college if you want actual knowledge not some **** some 17 year old posted on his phone before class.

[mitsukaiSI]

it is RECOMMENDED that you bleed the brakes when you change pads for safety reasons, however it has NO EFFECT on ABS what so ever

[sisean]

Originally Posted by mitsukaiSI

it is RECOMMENDED that you bleed the brakes when you change pads for safety reasons, however it has NO EFFECT on ABS what so ever

Im not trying to pick a fight or anything, but what are the "safety reasons"

[sisean]

nm that's true because brake fluid loves to absorb moisture, and if you get too much moisture into your braking system it will effect its efficiency IIRC.

[mitsukaiSI]

brake failure. . . i dont think your trying to pick a fight

the "by the book" way to change pads is to remove the caliper and use a caliper piston compressor to push the piston back into the caliper theoretically making it possible to create bubbles in the lines. as a precaution you are supposed to loosen the bleeder valve and relieve the pressure and remove any bubbles in the line.

thats how its "supposed" to be done but its kind of the same thing as honda recommending that you ONLY USE THEIR motor oil and trans fluid, if that makes any sense

[mitsukaiSI]

Originally Posted by sisean

nm that's true because brake fluid loves to absorb moisture, and if you get too much moisture into your braking system it will effect its efficiency IIRC.

we may be talking about two different things maybe? it seems from this statement that you are talking more along the lines of a brake fluid flush? where you remove all of the fluid while refilling at the same time?

if thats the case, that is definatly NOT required when you change pads

[sisean]

yeah yeah, I was thinking of an entire system flush. I don't see how air bubbles could be created by pushing the piston back into the caliper on a closed brake system. Interesting though. Vacuum bleeders ftw!

[B MAN]

that sucks

but i understand where ur coming from, u joined and asked questions.. got answers just to find out u got the wrong answer.. can be frustrating...

HOWEVER, not using this as an excuse... but if you know how to change brakes, why did your expierence not tell u its not ness..

before i joined her, i printed out a DIY, on how to install an amp on a factory HU... well the guy mixed up some colors.. i ended up ruining my harness, and needed to spend $200+ to get a aftermarket radio and to pay some master tech dude to figure out where all those wires go

[mitsukaiSI]

Originally Posted by sisean

yeah yeah, I was thinking of an entire system flush. I don't see how air bubbles could be created by pushing the piston back into the caliper on a closed brake system. Interesting though. Vacuum bleeders ftw!

thats the thing its HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY unlikely which is why almost no one does the bleed if they dont have to haha

[SiAzul]

Originally Posted by sisean

Honestly, I wouldn't take half the advice I see on forums....Take an automotive service class at a community college if you want actual knowledge not some **** some 17 year old posted on his phone before class.

Was this necessary? nice way to not try and pick a fight

Originally Posted by mitsukaiSI

we may be talking about two different things maybe? it seems from this statement that you are talking more along the lines of a brake fluid flush? where you remove all of the fluid while refilling at the same time?

if thats the case, that is definatly NOT required when you change pads

Originally Posted by mitsukaiSI

thats the thing its HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY unlikely which is why almost no one does the bleed if they dont have to haha

basically what I meant

[hiphopaddict]

Originally Posted by B MAN

that sucks

but i understand where ur coming from, u joined and asked questions.. got answers just to find out u got the wrong answer.. can be frustrating...

HOWEVER, not using this as an excuse... but if you know how to change brakes, why did your expierence not tell u its not ness..

before i joined her, i printed out a DIY, on how to install an amp on a factory HU... well the guy mixed up some colors.. i ended up ruining my harness, and needed to spend $200+ to get a aftermarket radio and to pay some master tech dude to figure out where all those wires go

Everything within my core being told me this was not necessary, but I have gotten so much good info from this site over the years and there were so many different people who said the same damn thing. I took it as gospel. The reasoning behind it sounds fairly logical as well so I was fooled easily. The most common reason I see is that when the calipers are compressed, the brake fluid is pushed backwards through the ABS sensors and this can supposedly cause serious problems.

I also forgot to mention one crucial part of the story: When I initially called the dealer to set an appt to bring it in I made the following statement to the service technician: You know I've done 10 or 20 brake jobs over the years but I've only bled brakes once or twice and it was always a pain the butt. I know this car requires the brakes to be bled to replace the pads so I would just as soon pay you all to do it as I really don't have time to mess with it right now. The tech I spoke w/ did not correct me, he either didn't know or let me go on believing the bull**** so I would bring the car in and pay them $300 to do something I could do in an hour. That's another reason I went off on the dealer when I came to pick it up. B/c I felt I had been mislead. Realistically though it's my own damn fault for believing what I read on here. Lesson learned....

Here is one such misleading post:
Look below the 4th picture down:
DIY: Changing rear brake pads

Another, 5th post down:
Replacing Rear Brake pads question

[buck_n_a]

"Realistically though it's my own damn fault for believing what I read on here. Lesson learned...."

I disagree many people on here posted that you did not need to bleed your breaks. So the fault was not of the board but you not trusting what you instinctively knew.

I am far from a mechanic but I did my brakes for the first time ever just 10 minutes ago and did not bleed them. Now if something goes wrong because I did not bleed them I have nobody but myself to blame.

Sorry you had a bad experience at the stealership.

[adamway]

I have always bleed the brakes on my 99 DX....front disc. I found that if i did not bleed the brakes, the peddle would be too soft. Maybe it would build up more pressure over time, but I never wanted to take the chance. maybe my 99 dx had a compleytly different brake set-up than the new civics.


just my 2 cents

[doji_nj]

You don't have to bleed your brakes if you're changing your first set of pads within the first year or two of driving a new car.

If someone does 15K miles a year and their first set of pads make it to 60K miles, it might be a good idea to bleed the brakes then (around the 4 year mark). Honda recommends bleeding brakes every 3 years, irrespective of mileage.

More important than bleeding your brakes is lubing the slider pins and cleaning around the shims, especially if you live in areas where a lot of road salt is used in winter. THAT neglect is what will screw up your brakes more than not replacing brake fluid.

[oomicha3loo]

People recommended that brakes bleeder screws be open because it is more safe when you are pushing the pistons in because the dirts on the bottom of your caliper can be push back into the abs and that could clog up your abs function so its just a safety precaution that you should take before pushing back your pistons

[quickfit]

IMO, with a car this new, the only tiem you have to bleed teh brakes if your your removing/possibly letting air into the brake system, i.e. replacing calipers, brake lines, changing brake fluid, etc.

bleeding the brakes when replacing pads is not necessary.

[DartSI]

i replaced brakes 5 times with mine and my parents cars. we just use a c clamp to compress the pisons back in and no problems.

[oomicha3loo]

Well it is good for you to bleed the brake because it does help cools down the pistons action and on top of that, gravity bleed isn't that hard haha