hondata question...

2evolved · 06-04-2006, 12:22 PM

I saw the Hondata review and did read it from sickyute... nice review.. I didn't read all 7 pages of the damn thread it made me tired getting through the first 3.

I don't think I want to take my ECU out and ship it to CA or whatever.

It is something I want to consider but I rather wait until EMS or E-Manage comes out... but... heres the question.

Does HONDATA work with Standalone? I know how flashes work and its a pita to send in the ECU on a new mod. I also know there is pros/cons of flash vs standalone.

I've never tuned a Honda also I know the basics are the same as any other engine but can with someone who has better experience on them chime in on this for me!

cmf · 06-04-2006, 12:29 PM

From my understanding, Hondata probably won't do a standalone (K-pro). I heard the DBW system has something to do with it, but I could be way off on that.

larryd · 06-04-2006, 12:37 PM

I'm not sure what you're actually asking "Does HONDATA work with Standalone". Do you mean if you were to purchase a standalone would Hondata flash it? Simple answer to that one is no.

Also E-Manage is not a standalone, it still uses the stock ECM. Most companies who offer standalones like Apexi Power FC, AEM EMS etc etc have not offered anything for cars with DBW (Drive by Wire).

2evolved · 06-04-2006, 04:02 PM

Oh I asked the question wrong...

I meant would Hondata work with E-Manage, AFC etc...

cmf · 06-04-2006, 04:33 PM

Doesn't matter, those systems won't work on a DBW car as of the moment.

2evolved · 06-04-2006, 05:15 PM

So its not possible to fine tune flashes with piggy back systems?

larryd · 06-04-2006, 06:22 PM

Actually you are wrong, the Emanage and AFC both work with DBW as they are just piggy back units that retain the stock ECU.

I don't know wether or not you could use them in conjunction with the reflash but I don't see why not.

cmf · 06-04-2006, 10:59 PM

I have yet to see a AFC that will work on a DBW system.

larryd · 06-04-2006, 11:46 PM

Why wouldnt it? It pulls the RPMs off of the rev signal from the ECM unless ofcourse it can't get a throttle percentage because of the DBW. I didn't think of that.

cmf · 06-05-2006, 04:39 PM

DBW replaces a throttle cable/ body.

larryd · 06-05-2006, 04:43 PM

No sh*t.. You don't physically connect an AFC to the cable. It gets the signal from an electrical connection. Why that signal would be any different on DBW vs DBC is beyond me.

cmf · 06-05-2006, 08:27 PM

Dude, don't get so excited.
I had a TSX (also DBW) and many have tried everything in the book. Point is, wiring to get an AFC to work is virtually impossible, hence no wiring diagrams being available to do so. The car is working on 3 years old, and still nothing. It's not there for a TSX, nor will it be for the Si. Maybe somewhere down the line, but not at the current moment. I think that is what the person that started the thread was looking for is to see if it'd work, but it won't, with or without Hondata.
If you want to do a hack job on your electrical system to prove how much you know, then be my guest, good luck. Don't read so much into what people type.

2evolved · 06-05-2006, 09:49 PM

Hey.. no war in my threads

larryd · 06-05-2006, 10:16 PM

My bad.. I've been crabby all day. I'm trying to understand why it doesnt work is what I was getting at. The throttle percentage is just an electrical signal regardless of wether its a DBW or DBC so why would there be a difference?

**sickyute** · 06-05-2006, 10:18 PM

my car is being boosted as we speak...turbo...tuning figured out! so it's possible!!!

***Hondata*** · 06-06-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryd

Actually you are wrong, the Emanage and AFC both work with DBW as they are just piggy back units that retain the stock ECU.

I don't know wether or not you could use them in conjunction with the reflash but I don't see why not.

This engine computer has extremely tight control over air fuel ratios. Under 3800 rpm the car runs in closed loop even at full throttle. So, if you adjust the air fuel ratios externally to make the car run richer, the ECU will just lean it back out again.

2evolved · 06-06-2006, 03:02 PM

wow.. i had Hondata himself post my thread!

so what if you fool the ECU by thinking its running too lean instead of rich?

***Hondata*** · 06-06-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2evolved

wow.. i had Hondata himself post my thread!

so what if you fool the ECU by thinking its running too lean instead of rich?

Same thing. It will add fuel to hit a specific air fuel ratio. The 02 Sensors are wideband and are very accurate.

larryd · 06-06-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondata

This engine computer has extremely tight control over air fuel ratios. Under 3800 rpm the car runs in closed loop even at full throttle. So, if you adjust the air fuel ratios externally to make the car run richer, the ECU will just lean it back out again.

The statement though was that an AFC would not work on a car with Drive By Wire. The fact is an AFC will not work on these new engines with Intelligence as the factory ECU is always compensating for what the piggy back changes. This has nothing to do with DBW which is what I was getting at before.

cmf · 06-06-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondata

Same thing. It will add fuel to hit a specific air fuel ratio. The 02 Sensors are wideband and are very accurate.

So, adding an AFC to the Civic does nothing then. What is the case with the TSX then? Same issues?

06-04-2006, 12:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
2evolved Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston Age: 23 Posts: 603 iTrader: 3 / 100%	hondata question... I saw the Hondata review and did read it from sickyute... nice review.. I didn't read all 7 pages of the damn thread it made me tired getting through the first 3. I don't think I want to take my ECU out and ship it to CA or whatever. It is something I want to consider but I rather wait until EMS or E-Manage comes out... but... heres the question. Does HONDATA work with Standalone? I know how flashes work and its a pita to send in the ECU on a new mod. I also know there is pros/cons of flash vs standalone. I've never tuned a Honda also I know the basics are the same as any other engine but can with someone who has better experience on them chime in on this for me!

06-05-2006, 10:18 PM	#15 (permalink)
sickyute Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl Age: 27 Posts: 9,469 Marvie iTrader: 12 / 100%	my car is being boosted as we speak...turbo...tuning figured out! so it's possible!!! __________________ Shift when it blinks! http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2640940 FA5 http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2216565 FG2

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06-04-2006, 12:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
cmf Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 / 0%	From my understanding, Hondata probably won't do a standalone (K-pro). I heard the DBW system has something to do with it, but I could be way off on that.

06-04-2006, 12:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
larryd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 1,809 iTrader: 2 / 100%	I'm not sure what you're actually asking "Does HONDATA work with Standalone". Do you mean if you were to purchase a standalone would Hondata flash it? Simple answer to that one is no. Also E-Manage is not a standalone, it still uses the stock ECM. Most companies who offer standalones like Apexi Power FC, AEM EMS etc etc have not offered anything for cars with DBW (Drive by Wire).

06-04-2006, 04:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
2evolved Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston Age: 23 Posts: 603 iTrader: 3 / 100%	Oh I asked the question wrong... I meant would Hondata work with E-Manage, AFC etc...

06-04-2006, 04:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
cmf Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Doesn't matter, those systems won't work on a DBW car as of the moment.

06-04-2006, 05:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
2evolved Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston Age: 23 Posts: 603 iTrader: 3 / 100%	So its not possible to fine tune flashes with piggy back systems?

06-04-2006, 06:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
larryd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 1,809 iTrader: 2 / 100%	Actually you are wrong, the Emanage and AFC both work with DBW as they are just piggy back units that retain the stock ECU. I don't know wether or not you could use them in conjunction with the reflash but I don't see why not.

06-04-2006, 10:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
cmf Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I have yet to see a AFC that will work on a DBW system.

06-04-2006, 11:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
larryd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 1,809 iTrader: 2 / 100%	Why wouldnt it? It pulls the RPMs off of the rev signal from the ECM unless ofcourse it can't get a throttle percentage because of the DBW. I didn't think of that.

06-05-2006, 04:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
cmf Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 / 0%	DBW replaces a throttle cable/ body.

06-05-2006, 04:43 PM	#11 (permalink)
larryd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 1,809 iTrader: 2 / 100%	No sh*t.. You don't physically connect an AFC to the cable. It gets the signal from an electrical connection. Why that signal would be any different on DBW vs DBC is beyond me.

06-05-2006, 08:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
cmf Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Dude, don't get so excited. I had a TSX (also DBW) and many have tried everything in the book. Point is, wiring to get an AFC to work is virtually impossible, hence no wiring diagrams being available to do so. The car is working on 3 years old, and still nothing. It's not there for a TSX, nor will it be for the Si. Maybe somewhere down the line, but not at the current moment. I think that is what the person that started the thread was looking for is to see if it'd work, but it won't, with or without Hondata. If you want to do a hack job on your electrical system to prove how much you know, then be my guest, good luck. Don't read so much into what people type.

06-05-2006, 09:49 PM	#13 (permalink)
2evolved Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston Age: 23 Posts: 603 iTrader: 3 / 100%	Hey.. no war in my threads

06-05-2006, 10:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
larryd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 1,809 iTrader: 2 / 100%	My bad.. I've been crabby all day. I'm trying to understand why it doesnt work is what I was getting at. The throttle percentage is just an electrical signal regardless of wether its a DBW or DBC so why would there be a difference?

06-06-2006, 03:02 PM	#17 (permalink)
2evolved Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston Age: 23 Posts: 603 iTrader: 3 / 100%	wow.. i had Hondata himself post my thread! so what if you fool the ECU by thinking its running too lean instead of rich?