3rd Gear Solution under way

[dlux200sx]

in 10 chars

[Vinc84]

Originally Posted by dlux200sx

in 10 chars

?

[dlux200sx]

i meant, in for more info after the jump!

[hifichip-si76]

I really hope they do a TSB. I haven't even bothered to to bring it up at the dealer, says they never know anything about it. All I did was insist that they change the MTF, which did make it much better, at least for now.

It's amazing how the techs never know anything that's all over the internet.

[Orbit1]

I had mine replaced 2 weeks ago (3rd gear set) and I haven't had any trouble. It's a tad notchy when it's out of rev range for the syncro but not bad.

Now I need to figure out why I have a grinding sound when I make sharp turns

[Vinc84]

Really? They must have only repaired your transmission with the same exact but new parts then because the actual fix for this issue has not been completed yet as I have stated already. You may want to bring your car in for the fix later on because I'm sure your replacement is only going to "fix" your problem temporarily, I could be wrong though. I just hope for your sake that they don't try to not give you the actual fix later on because of the fix you have already received.

[tommyroo]

This is good news but I have to admit, I am scared to death to let them take my tranny apart.

[Orbit1]

Originally Posted by Vinc84

Really? They must have only repaired your transmission with the same exact but new parts then because the actual fix for this issue has not been completed yet as I have stated already. You may want to bring your car in for the fix later on because I'm sure your replacement is only going to "fix" your problem temporarily, I could be wrong though. I just hope for your sake that they don't try to not give you the actual fix later on because of the fix you have already received.

That thought occurred to me; however I'm thinking that they have at least produced a few "new-fix" replacements and issued them out already. They have to make sure their fix works before rolling out a big recall. Plus the lead time on gearsets is so long that I'm sure they've been in production for months. The way that they jumped on my problem right away and knew exactly what to do leads me to believe that the tech was at least familiar with the issue. Otherwise they probably would have blown me off like the other dealer I went to.

[Vinc84]

Hm, interesting. However my service manager double-checked with Honda over the phone again today and was told it is still in production. In either case, even if you did receive it already I would definitely double-check on it later on if I were you.

I don't think it will be a "recall", meaning it will not be in a letter-form sent out to all SI owners since it's not affecting everyone. And there's no VIN range to give out for it either. If they did treat it as a recall, dealerships would be swarmed with people who may or may not have the problem, and that's just too much for them to handle given that the inspection for the problem will be conducted free of charge - and that's simply too much time that will be wasted. Logical IMO.

[Orbit1]

Originally Posted by Vinc84

Hm, interesting. However my service manager double-checked with Honda over the phone again today and was told it is still in production. In either case, even if you did receive it already I would definitely double-check on it later on if I were you.

I don't think it will be a "recall", meaning it will not be in a letter-form sent out to all SI owners since it's not affecting everyone. And there's no VIN range to give out for it either. If they did treat it as a recall, dealerships would be swarmed with people who may or may not have the problem, and that's just too much for them to handle given that the inspection for the problem will be conducted free of charge - and that's simply too much time that will be wasted. Logical IMO.

I hear what you're saying, but if they are rolling this out as soon as you've heard then I would assume they already have completed units shipping (at least on a limited basis). Think about it; they have to send these to customers first, just to make sure the solution works. I'll bet I'm not the only one with a new gearset. I highly doubt they would implement a fix that is untested. They need customers putting miles on the replacements to ensure it works.

[Vinc84]

Originally Posted by Orbit1

I hear what you're saying, but if they are rolling this out as soon as you've heard then I would assume they already have completed units shipping (at least on a limited basis). Think about it; they have to send these to customers first, just to make sure the solution works. I'll bet I'm not the only one with a new gearset. I highly doubt they would implement a fix that is untested. They need customers putting miles on the replacements to ensure it works.

Hm, that is also plausible. Sort of like beta-testing if you will. Haha, if that is the case then they should at least let the car owners know that they're being used as guinea pigs.

But you do have a point. They did say the parts for the fix could be available as early as Jan 2008, so it is indeed possible that you have received these parts already. Do you have the service receipt with the parts and labor listed? If so, please share it with us.

[Orbit1]

word

[Vinc84]

Very nice work, thanks for the scan!

Okay, after seeing this I can say this: You have a very responsive service team at your local dealership, and we should all hope to be treated as good as you were treated.

However, after looking at the parts they ordered and installed into you car I know that you couldn't have received the official fix yet. They have simply just installed for you a new 3rd gear for you from what I can see from this.

I was told about the fix in as much detail as possible. In my relayed description of the fix to everyone on my posts, I stated that the solution for the fix lies primarily in the ENTIRELY NEW gear syncro rings (it is entirely new/different from what we currently have) that Honda is manufacturing (or has already manufactured?...). I do not see on this service receipt that those parts were ordered and installed for you.

From what I see on your parts listed, you were given:

FORK 3-4 (transmission fork)
Gear Set, 3rd (obvious)
HONDABOND HT (Silicone Gasket Sealant)

I don't see any syncros listed...so they really only did give you a new 3rd gear and shiny new tranny fork. This might fix the problem, but in my opinion temporarily.

So that leads me to conclude that you have not received the actual awaited fix.

I was informed that the new syncros will be for all gears - 1 through 6. In addition, they will replace any damaged gears that was associated to the problem, as well as any other part that was damaged in relation.

So the question is, do you know if you did or did not receive those other key parts?

[KenB]

I was at the dealer today for an oil change. I presented the Service Manager with the OP's post. He gave it a quick read, made a phone call, and told me that as soon as they got the official word from Honda he would call me for an appointment to have the parts replaced. There was no request to see it fail in action. Just do it he said. Looks like there may be hope that this is moving forward after all.

[Vinc84]

Originally Posted by KenB

I was at the dealer today for an oil change. I presented the Service Manager with the OP's post. He gave it a quick read, made a phone call, and told me that as soon as they got the official word from Honda he would call me for an appointment to have the parts replaced. There was no request to see it fail in action. Just do it he said. Looks like there may be hope that this is moving forward after all.

Good work. I'm glad you were able to get that much done with your service manager at your dealership. I hope everyone is able to do the same

[Orbit1]

Originally Posted by Vinc84

Very nice work, thanks for the scan!

Okay, after seeing this I can say this: You have a very responsive service team at your local dealership, and we should all hope to be treated as good as you were treated.

However, after looking at the parts they ordered and installed into you car I know that you couldn't have received the official fix yet. They have simply just installed for you a new 3rd gear for you from what I can see from this.

I was told about the fix in as much detail as possible. In my relayed description of the fix to everyone on my posts, I stated that the solution for the fix lies primarily in the ENTIRELY NEW gear syncro rings (it is entirely new/different from what we currently have) that Honda is manufacturing (or has already manufactured?...). I do not see on this service receipt that those parts were ordered and installed for you.

From what I see on your parts listed, you were given:

FORK 3-4 (transmission fork)
Gear Set, 3rd (obvious)
HONDABOND HT (Silicone Gasket Sealant)

I don't see any syncros listed...so they really only did give you a new 3rd gear and shiny new tranny fork. This might fix the problem, but in my opinion temporarily.

So that leads me to conclude that you have not received the actual awaited fix.

I was informed that the new syncros will be for all gears - 1 through 6 plus the reverse as well. In addition, they will replace any damaged gears that was associated to the problem, as well as any other part that was damaged in relation.

So the question is, do you know if you did or did not receive those other key parts?

If I'm not mistaken, any time a tranny is rebuilt, synchros would be replaced. I'm assuming that the "gear set" is all the parts of 3rd, including the synchro.
I could be wrong, but that's rare (ha ha )
I'm not opposed to having them fix it...again, but I really got the feeling that I've got the goods so to speak. We shall see :)

[Vinc84]

No, honestly I think "Gear Set, 3rd" basically means:

Gear that was Set: 3RD Gear (not 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, or 6th but just 3rd)

Meaning they only gave you a new 3rd gear and only that one gear, and MAYBE the one syncro ring to go with the 3rd gear. If you received everything it simply would not be that vague...if they in fact gave you an entire set of new gears or even just the 3rd gear, whatever syncros they included whether it was just one for the 3rd gear or all 6 syncros for all 6 gears - it would all be listed on the parts and labor list indefinitely.

At the top of your service receipt, the description of your problem & services rendered is stated thusly:

CUST STATES HAS TO DOUBLE CLUTCH TO GO INTO GEAR - WITH
ALSO THROWING SELF OUT OF GEAR BY ITSELF
VEHICLE ALSO MAKING IT HARD TO SHIFT INTO THIRD
OVERHAULED TRANS AND REPLACED THIRD GEAR.

So much of that description is concentrated on the third gear!...As it should be since that is our problem. 3rd gear this, 3rd gear that. The 3rd gear is not the problem really, but it is the victim in this problem!

The service dept at your dealership simply went ahead and tried to fix your problem by replacing your 3rd gear - this has been done for many other people besides you already. It does not fix the problem for good, only temporarily. They basically opened up your transmission and just replaced your 3rd gear - that was their solution to the problem. However...the 3rd gear itself isn't the problem. The problem is in how gear box itself is laid out and the current gear syncros in our gear box. That is why the official fix involves replaced the syncros as well as placing the gears in a newly set up box with a improved "pattern" if you will, for improved shifting that has been designed to tackle and eliminate the 3rd gear issue. Does everyone understand what I'm trying to say? Simply replacing the 3rd gear is not the solution. It's just going to be a brand new gear to grind up again...

It's like giving a brand new arm to manic-depressant-suicidal-emo who can't stop himself from slitting his wrists - he's just going to cut up that new arm all over again. To fix the problem for good, you'll need to find out what's wrong with the poor bastard and fix him so he'll stop being a retard.

Orbit1, your problem could be fixed, I can't say I know 100% that it's not, but I'm just trying to help you in case you're trying to convince yourself that it is even when I'm trying to point out that it makes no sense. I hope it doesn't offend you, instead I hope it inspires you to double check everything later on - especially when the official parts for the fix are actually released in an announcement...and not in some 'selective testing' or whatever you might think it is that you received.

Does anyone else have any input on this?

[Special Ringpop]

Vince, I've got a question that you may have already discussed, but I looked already and couldn't find it.

Do you have any ideas, personally, as to what this fix package may encompass, and what they'd have to do in order to apply it? Like...what would they be replacing and how would they go about doing it.

I have to admit I'm a little nervous to let a technician touch my transmission, when they can't even seem to put the right oil in my car (three times now I've had 5W-20 put in even after I asked for 5W-30, not to mention it is on the cap).

[Vinc84]

Originally Posted by Special Ringpop

Vince, I've got a question that you may have already discussed, but I looked already and couldn't find it.

Do you have any ideas, personally, as to what this fix package may encompass, and what they'd have to do in order to apply it? Like...what would they be replacing and how would they go about doing it.

I have to admit I'm a little nervous to let a technician touch my transmission, when they can't even seem to put the right oil in my car (three times now I've had 5W-20 put in even after I asked for 5W-30, not to mention it is on the cap).

The basic package your car will receive, from what I've been told thus far, will include a new 3rd gear probably - since the one you have is probably eaten down and damaged (but it wasn't the problem, it was the victim) as well as any other gear that was damaged in relation to the issue. You will also receive new gear syncro rings that are different from the ones that are currently in your transmission. The new syncros will provide an improved smoother shifting that is manufactured to specifically target the problem and hopefully eliminate any difficulty experienced prior the the repair (meaning you should no longer have any trouble with the 3rd gear or any other gear). The gear box itself thusly, will receive a new "pattern" - it would appear that Honda recognizes that the current "pattern" that our shiftknob follows when we shift isn't very well guided and this causes us to meet a "wall" when we try to shift into third - when we hit that "wall" it can cause our shift from 2nd into 3rd to be rejected causing a "kickback" action and/or grinding to occur.

In conjunction with the transmission repairs, you may or may not also even receive a new clutch. If your service technician finds that your clutch has been worn down to a serious enough state or if it's even BLOWN because of the 3rd gear problems - then you will receive a new clutch free-of-charge as well.

Furthermore, it is also critical to know that the MTF in our transmissions should now be Amsoil Syncromesh or equal (your Honda may offer their own new MTF which is basically the same thing). Honda recognizes that the original MFT was not effective enough and so that probably contributed to transmission faultiness INCLUDING the 3rd gear issue. So make sure you get that done as well if you have not already done so.

In order to fully know what needs to be done to your car specifically, you must have your Honda service technicians inspect your vehicle's transmission as well as the rest of your vehicle's drive-train/power-train to fully access what needs repair in the given circumstances. I cannot promise that you won't have to pay for any of it - but I can assure you that you will at least receive the basic transmission repairs for this problem. If however they find that something else has been damaged but they are not willing to cover for it, you will have to unfortunately probably pay for that out of your pocket whatever it may be.

I understand that everyone is nervous and upset that these repairs will have to be done to their transmission - but we have no choice but to get it done because we'll be doing much worse without it getting done. Just have some faith that your SI WILL be the way that it should have been when you paid out the money for it. I still love my SI and trust in Honda to fix all of this despite how messed up this whole thing is. SI FTW!

[steve68cougar]

Vince, your info is right on from what I was told at my dealership. My car was in an unfortunate accident back in early December, so I had the dealership look at the transmission while it was in for the bodywork. Their first reaction was "can't replicate", but after I took them out and replicated it myself they understood what the issue was. They made a call to Honda and the story that was relayed to me was just what you've been saying. The service manager told me there were several tsb's out on it (change oil and change shifter fork), but I should just wait until the redesigned parts are available (which should be within a week according to their timetable back in early December). I can't really add any info to what you've said, but I can confirm your info is what I was told by my dealership.