Why do People Hate on the Mugen Si??

cornerstrike · 05-30-2007, 04:55 PM

This whole issue about the Mugen Si being overpriced has me so annoyed. I am not arguing that a Civic for 30k is not expensive. 30k for a Civic is expensive. But the majority of people who have an opinion about the car, in these forums, always complain about the "Mugen" Si being overpriced. Let's brake it down a bit, using Mugen parts as priced from KingMotorsports for the JDM Civic as an example, shall we?

2007 Civic Si Sedan base = $21,290

Mugen Parts:
Front Sports Grille Unpainted $ 318.00

Front Under Spoiler $ 450.00

Rear Under Spoiler $ 450.00

Rear Wing Unpainted $ 450.00

Side Spoiler Set Unpainted $ 505.00

Mugen GP Forged Wheel
18x7.5, +48, 5x114.3, 17.75lbs each $710 x 4 = $2840

BFGoodrich KDW (215/40R18) $148.00 x 4 = $592
(Price was from Tirerack.com)

Mugen Sport Exhaust System $1370
(Price from GT Motoring for FD2 Type R)

Mugen Shift Knob 6 Speed $95.00

The total for the above comes out to $28,360. This is assuming that the Mugen Si does not come with a Navi system. If it comes with the Navi, which is about $1700 extra, then we get a price of about $30,060. Honda states that they will sell the Mugen Si for under 30k. If they indeed do sell it for under 30k then the price is justified, using the facts stated above.

Again, I agree that 30k for a Civic is a lot. But I do not agree with the people who say that the Mugen Si is overpriced, because the fact is it's not. Of course, for the money you can get an Evo or an STi for a little more. But there are Civic owners that spend that much on their own cars, especially if there buying Mugen.

I would love to get some smart feedback on this.

notty · 05-30-2007, 05:05 PM

Wow, you sure did your homework on this one. It must have been bothering the hell out of you!! haha I too am waiting to see some responses........

cornerstrike · 05-30-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notty

Wow, you sure did your homework on this one. It must have been bothering the hell out of you!! haha I too am waiting to see some responses........

You have no idea.

***maximus20895*** · 05-30-2007, 05:12 PM

yea i agree, there are tons of people on this forum that spends more money on there civic on mods

notty · 05-30-2007, 05:12 PM

....and you didn't even include the price to have the kit painted!!

NIGHTHAWKSI · 05-30-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornerstrike

This whole issue about the Mugen Si being overpriced has me so annoyed. I am not arguing that a Civic for 30k is not expensive. 30k for a Civic is expensive. But the majority of people who have an opinion about the car, in these forums, always complain about the "Mugen" Si being overpriced. Let's brake it down a bit, using Mugen parts as priced from KingMotorsports for the JDM Civic as an example, shall we?

2007 Civic Si Sedan base = $21,290

Mugen Parts:
Front Sports Grille Unpainted $ 318.00

Front Under Spoiler $ 450.00

Rear Under Spoiler $ 450.00

Rear Wing Unpainted $ 450.00

Side Spoiler Set Unpainted $ 505.00

Mugen GP Forged Wheel
18x7.5, +48, 5x114.3, 17.75lbs each $710 x 4 = $2840

BFGoodrich KDW (215/40R18) $148.00 x 4 = $592
(Price was from Tirerack.com)

Mugen Sport Exhaust System $1370
(Price from GT Motoring for FD2 Type R)

Mugen Shift Knob 6 Speed $95.00

The total for the above comes out to $28,360. This is assuming that the Mugen Si does not come with a Navi system. If it comes with the Navi, which is about $1700 extra, then we get a price of about $30,060. Honda states that they will sell the Mugen Si for under 30k. If they indeed do sell it for under 30k then the price is justified, using the facts stated above.

Again, I agree that 30k for a Civic is a lot. But I do not agree with the people who say that the Mugen Si is overpriced, because the fact is it's not. Of course, for the money you can get an Evo or an STi for a little more. But there are Civic owners that spend that much on their own cars, especially if there buying Mugen.

I would love to get some smart feedback on this.

your math is entirely accurate....except honda does not pay retail for parts which are the prices you listed.<-- my main point

also, when people see the mugen name, they expect to see some kind of performance, not just an appearance package. and i think that is what most peopl ehave the problem with. 8k for appearance is ALOT of money. also, just because honda says its MSRP will be under 30k, doesnt mean it will sell for that. i wouldnt expect to see anyone get teh car for under 35k after dealer markup, and then taxes on top of that. some simple math tells me 36k for a civic with an appearance package...and to me, that is too much money.

***NitrousG35*** · 05-30-2007, 05:22 PM

I personally love the Mugen but am a little put off by the price. As another said on this thread, the expectation is that the performance would be better than an Si. One would think that the horsepower could have been bumped up somewhat. For all the things one gets with the car, the price is really not out of line, plus, it is all under factory warranty. Truthfully, if people were to add up the mods they have done or plan to do, I am sure they have spent the same or even more than what a Mugen would cost.

TommyD · 05-30-2007, 05:26 PM

I can go to my local Subaru dealership and pick up a brand new '07 Sti all day long for 30k+ ttl. I agree with those who say it's not worth it for a bunch of cosmetic mods, it's not. No way in hell Honda pays anything close to what King would charge you for the parts. What they should have done is bring the Type R and charged somewhere in the mid 20k range for it.

inyong1988 · 05-30-2007, 05:33 PM

wheres the price for emblems and suspenstion?

sfccrx · 05-30-2007, 05:44 PM

for 30 grand I would want the JDM Type R Civic, as good as the Mugen looks, it's still mostly just cosmetic.............................

***Celcius*** · 05-30-2007, 06:15 PM

It depends on what you want I suppose. If you want a Honda that looks fast, buy the Mugen Sedan. DIdn't Sicyute do his JDM conversion for about 3-5k? I'd say that's a better visual investment as JDM fanboys will blow their load on that thing way more than the Mugen Sedan we're getting.

Most people look at it from a performance perspective, in which case, they're right. A Mugen Sedan will most likely lose to a Sti or Evo9, for roughly the same price, but many people still want to keep the Honda name, reliability, and styling, and it's totally up to them.

I've spent WAY over 30k on my car already, and it's nowhere near as fast as a Subaru, but that's not what I bought it for. If I wanted speed I could've bought an old Nissan and dropped an LS2 in it for half the price and have twice the power. This is mostly about asthetics, and that's always a judgement call.

scarletSI · 05-30-2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornerstrike

This whole issue about the Mugen Si being overpriced has me so annoyed. I am not arguing that a Civic for 30k is not expensive. 30k for a Civic is expensive. But the majority of people who have an opinion about the car, in these forums, always complain about the "Mugen" Si being overpriced. Let's brake it down a bit, using Mugen parts as priced from KingMotorsports for the JDM Civic as an example, shall we?

2007 Civic Si Sedan base = $21,290

Mugen Parts:
Front Sports Grille Unpainted $ 318.00

Front Under Spoiler $ 450.00

Rear Under Spoiler $ 450.00

Rear Wing Unpainted $ 450.00

Side Spoiler Set Unpainted $ 505.00

Mugen GP Forged Wheel
18x7.5, +48, 5x114.3, 17.75lbs each $710 x 4 = $2840

BFGoodrich KDW (215/40R18) $148.00 x 4 = $592
(Price was from Tirerack.com)

Mugen Sport Exhaust System $1370
(Price from GT Motoring for FD2 Type R)

Mugen Shift Knob 6 Speed $95.00

The total for the above comes out to $28,360. This is assuming that the Mugen Si does not come with a Navi system. If it comes with the Navi, which is about $1700 extra, then we get a price of about $30,060. Honda states that they will sell the Mugen Si for under 30k. If they indeed do sell it for under 30k then the price is justified, using the facts stated above.

Again, I agree that 30k for a Civic is a lot. But I do not agree with the people who say that the Mugen Si is overpriced, because the fact is it's not. Of course, for the money you can get an Evo or an STi for a little more. But there are Civic owners that spend that much on their own cars, especially if there buying Mugen.

I would love to get some smart feedback on this.

i dont think the mugen si is comming with a full exhaust system. frm what i remember it was an axle back...

correct me if im wrong cus i might be..

but i would definitely buy the mugen si if i didnt buy my fa5.

genuine MUGEN SI....=)

taffysi · 05-30-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIGHTHAWKSI

your math is entirely accurate....except honda does not pay retail for parts which are the prices you listed.<-- my main point

You're right, honda doesnt pay retail for those parts, but they will charge you retail on pretty much anything, so I'd say the prices the OP listed are pretty accurate and what Honda charges for their Mugen SI would be right around those prices. It's like how much does it cost Honda to make the Mugen SI vs. them setting it at an MSRP price?

cornerstrike · 05-30-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIGHTHAWKSI

your math is entirely accurate....except honda does not pay retail for parts which are the prices you listed.<-- my main point

If Honda sold the Si for the actual cost to manufacture, everyone on these forums would be driving one. Your main point is not a big point, since no manufacture sells their vehicles for the actual price it cost them to produce.

also, when people see the mugen name, they expect to see some kind of performance, not just an appearance package. and i think that is what most peopl ehave the problem with. 8k for appearance is ALOT of money. also, just because honda says its MSRP will be under 30k, doesnt mean it will sell for that. i wouldnt expect to see anyone get teh car for under 35k after dealer markup, and then taxes on top of that. some simple math tells me 36k for a civic with an appearance package...and to me, that is too much money.

Mugen Si is not just an appearance package. A performance exhaust, lighter wheels, stiffer suspension with lower center of gravity and an aero kit which reduces drag would make the Mugen Si faster then a stock Si Sedan.
To compare, the new Mugen Type R has only the following performance mods that give you more HP:
Hi-Performance Air Cleaner Box $710.00
Sports Exhaust System $1,370.00
The only thing missing is the airbox. I would have to say that it's not dramatically different from our Mugen Si in this respect.

The dealer mark up point cannot be applied to only the Mugen Si. A lot of people are saying that I can get an Evo or an STi now for about the same, but once both Subaru and Mitsubishi release the new Evo X and STI, do you really think dealers wont mark them up too?
Sure, some of us have connections with some dealers, but the majority of us will have to pay a mark up for an Evo X or STI. $hit, if they can mark up the new Xb, they can mark up anything.

Like I said before, the main point was that you are paying for a car with parts, that if you bought seperately would equal the same amount or more, plus installation. That's the point of this thread. Did anyone get that?

skandal57 · 05-30-2007, 07:20 PM

i say if it can hang with other performance cars in the 30k range then its worth it. it wont so i really only forsee a silly money doesnt matter group of people buying these. WHY CAN'T HONDA SELL A COMPTECH EDITION!!??

elsnowblow · 05-30-2007, 07:41 PM

plus rarety of the car. they will make very few a year. so one it will def hold its value.

televascular · 05-30-2007, 07:59 PM

Just as a small correction, a true aero kit does not reduce drag. It creates controlled drag in order to add downforce at high speeds. For the Mugen Si's aero kit, all of that extra hardware is dead weight until you reach 70mph+ and begin to notice the stability improvement.

Okay. So let's think about this. A Bankston Honda dealer rep posted over on Vtec.net, and this is what he said about the Mugen Si:

"Price is suppsed to be Right Under $30K, but add the Destination/Handling - expect it to nudge slightly over $30K.

Since there's only 500: Dont expect to pay sticker. i don't know if you were around when the 2000 S2000 was released but I heard as much as $10K mark ups back in the day. They made 10,000 of those that year. There's only 500 of these Mugen Si's. If you hear $5000 Over sticker - don't be surprised if they're the cheapest in town."

I can understand the OP's point about all individual Mugen parts + installation costing more than the Mugen Si. But it's true, Honda doesn't pay retail price, and everything is installed at the factory. In a real world comparison, price is the number one factor: there are plenty of $30k cars you can buy *without mark-up* that are plenty quicker than a marked-up Si with a desirable tuner's name printed on the parts.

An additional point of comparison:
If you spent money on upgrades for a standard Civic Si sedan to equal the total price of a Mugen Si (including mark-up, since this is a real-world comparison), you would have a faster, nimbler vehicle. Think about forced induction, camber mods, even lighter wheels, functional cat-back, etc. It's quite a disappointment, seeing as how Mugen is supposed to be the pinnacle of Honda performance. It becomes quite obvious that the Mugen Si is so expensive because of the "Mugen" association and the rarity of the vehicle. In my mind, this kinda shows how Honda analyzes the market: for Americans, show is more important than go.

The only good thing about the Mugen Si is that all the additional performance parts are included in the warranty.

vetkiller · 05-30-2007, 08:42 PM

Who would want a 30-35k car that looks fast but would probably be blown away by a civic si with i/h/e? I think this car is completely ridiculous.

Screw Mugen! I would rather buy aftermarket internals and SC to 320whp. Slap on some tasteful carbon fiber, a nice set of rims, etc..etc. for 30k. Why not look good and be fast?

Better beat an STi with 10k in mods.

ender · 05-30-2007, 09:02 PM

Some great points on here. I wouldn't buy any Honda Civic that was over 30k unless is was sure to give a other 30k sports cars a run for their money. I'm not even talking about just going straight I'm talking about the twisties, braking, etc...

My major complaints are about the same as everyone else expcept major flaw I see...it has four doors. I don't really have anything against four door sports car but I would never buy one. I love 2dr's. Btw, wutz vtech???

cornerstrike · 05-30-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by televascular

Just as a small correction, a true aero kit does not reduce drag. It creates controlled drag in order to add downforce at high speeds. For the Mugen Si's aero kit, all of that extra hardware is dead weight until you reach 70mph+ and begin to notice the stability improvement.

Okay. So let's think about this. A Bankston Honda dealer rep posted over on Vtec.net, and this is what he said about the Mugen Si:

"Price is suppsed to be Right Under $30K, but add the Destination/Handling - expect it to nudge slightly over $30K.

Since there's only 500: Dont expect to pay sticker. i don't know if you were around when the 2000 S2000 was released but I heard as much as $10K mark ups back in the day. They made 10,000 of those that year. There's only 500 of these Mugen Si's. If you hear $5000 Over sticker - don't be surprised if they're the cheapest in town."

I can understand the OP's point about all individual Mugen parts + installation costing more than the Mugen Si. But it's true, Honda doesn't pay retail price, and everything is installed at the factory. In a real world comparison, price is the number one factor: there are plenty of $30k cars you can buy *without mark-up* that are plenty quicker than a marked-up Si with a desirable tuner's name printed on the parts.

An additional point of comparison:
If you spent money on upgrades for a standard Civic Si sedan to equal the total price of a Mugen Si (including mark-up, since this is a real-world comparison), you would have a faster, nimbler vehicle. Think about forced induction, camber mods, even lighter wheels, functional cat-back, etc. It's quite a disappointment, seeing as how Mugen is supposed to be the pinnacle of Honda performance. It becomes quite obvious that the Mugen Si is so expensive because of the "Mugen" association and the rarity of the vehicle. In my mind, this kinda shows how Honda analyzes the market: for Americans, show is more important than go.

The only good thing about the Mugen Si is that all the additional performance parts are included in the warranty.

I agree with your points, but I still stand by the fact that the price is about right for the hardware that your getting extra. If someone wanted to get all Mugen parts for their Civic, and I know that there are some of you out there, then why not just buy the Mugen Si. That was my only point.

But I do agree that you can get a faster car for the money. But some people dont want a faster car. It's like getting a fully loaded Civic Ex, when for a few dollars more you can get and Si with Navi. It doesn't make sense to me either, but some people do buy the EX.

Also a small correction, the Honda website is now saying they are making 1000 Mugen Sis. I posted this a few days ago. The link is below.

http://automobiles.honda.com/future-...civic+si+mugen

05-30-2007, 04:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
cornerstrike Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 618 iTrader: 4 / 100%	Why do People Hate on the Mugen Si?? This whole issue about the Mugen Si being overpriced has me so annoyed. I am not arguing that a Civic for 30k is not expensive. 30k for a Civic is expensive. But the majority of people who have an opinion about the car, in these forums, always complain about the "Mugen" Si being overpriced. Let's brake it down a bit, using Mugen parts as priced from KingMotorsports for the JDM Civic as an example, shall we? 2007 Civic Si Sedan base = $21,290 Mugen Parts: Front Sports Grille Unpainted $ 318.00 Front Under Spoiler $ 450.00 Rear Under Spoiler $ 450.00 Rear Wing Unpainted $ 450.00 Side Spoiler Set Unpainted $ 505.00 Mugen GP Forged Wheel 18x7.5, +48, 5x114.3, 17.75lbs each $710 x 4 = $2840 BFGoodrich KDW (215/40R18) $148.00 x 4 = $592 (Price was from Tirerack.com) Mugen Sport Exhaust System $1370 (Price from GT Motoring for FD2 Type R) Mugen Shift Knob 6 Speed $95.00 The total for the above comes out to $28,360. This is assuming that the Mugen Si does not come with a Navi system. If it comes with the Navi, which is about $1700 extra, then we get a price of about $30,060. Honda states that they will sell the Mugen Si for under 30k. If they indeed do sell it for under 30k then the price is justified, using the facts stated above. Again, I agree that 30k for a Civic is a lot. But I do not agree with the people who say that the Mugen Si is overpriced, because the fact is it's not. Of course, for the money you can get an Evo or an STi for a little more. But there are Civic owners that spend that much on their own cars, especially if there buying Mugen. I would love to get some smart feedback on this.

05-30-2007, 05:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
*maximus20895* Teach me how to take pics Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 1,768 Max iTrader: 0 / 0%	yea i agree, there are tons of people on this forum that spends more money on there civic on mods __________________ P2R TBS/TBGs / Fujita SRI / Skunk2 10th Anv. Knob/Radiator Cap / TWM SS/ Auger Boot TWM Cable/Base Bushings / StrutKing DP Cover / JDM Dipstick / Cleared Head/Tails / My Car Build Thread - Amilia

05-30-2007, 06:15 PM	#11 (permalink)
*Celcius* www.yospeed.com Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Anaheim, CA Age: 23 Posts: 4,451 David Yonehara iTrader: 17 / 100%	It depends on what you want I suppose. If you want a Honda that looks fast, buy the Mugen Sedan. DIdn't Sicyute do his JDM conversion for about 3-5k? I'd say that's a better visual investment as JDM fanboys will blow their load on that thing way more than the Mugen Sedan we're getting. Most people look at it from a performance perspective, in which case, they're right. A Mugen Sedan will most likely lose to a Sti or Evo9, for roughly the same price, but many people still want to keep the Honda name, reliability, and styling, and it's totally up to them. I've spent WAY over 30k on my car already, and it's nowhere near as fast as a Subaru, but that's not what I bought it for. If I wanted speed I could've bought an old Nissan and dropped an LS2 in it for half the price and have twice the power. This is mostly about asthetics, and that's always a judgement call. __________________

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05-30-2007, 05:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
notty Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 159 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Wow, you sure did your homework on this one. It must have been bothering the hell out of you!! haha I too am waiting to see some responses........

05-30-2007, 05:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
notty Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 159 iTrader: 0 / 0%	....and you didn't even include the price to have the kit painted!!

05-30-2007, 05:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
*NitrousG35* Mr. Cowl Induction Join Date: May 2007 Location: To Infiniti and beyond... Posts: 9,812 Wild VTEC'n Bill iTrader: 3 / 100%	I personally love the Mugen but am a little put off by the price. As another said on this thread, the expectation is that the performance would be better than an Si. One would think that the horsepower could have been bumped up somewhat. For all the things one gets with the car, the price is really not out of line, plus, it is all under factory warranty. Truthfully, if people were to add up the mods they have done or plan to do, I am sure they have spent the same or even more than what a Mugen would cost.

05-30-2007, 05:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
TommyD Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,358 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I can go to my local Subaru dealership and pick up a brand new '07 Sti all day long for 30k+ ttl. I agree with those who say it's not worth it for a bunch of cosmetic mods, it's not. No way in hell Honda pays anything close to what King would charge you for the parts. What they should have done is bring the Type R and charged somewhere in the mid 20k range for it.

05-30-2007, 05:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
inyong1988 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: VIRGINIA Posts: 17,525 Junction Produce iTrader: 39 / 98%	wheres the price for emblems and suspenstion?

05-30-2007, 05:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
sfccrx Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: in a house.................somewhere in N.W. OH Posts: 896 iTrader: 0 / 0%	for 30 grand I would want the JDM Type R Civic, as good as the Mugen looks, it's still mostly just cosmetic.............................

05-30-2007, 07:20 PM	#15 (permalink)
skandal57 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lehigh Acres, FL. Posts: 514 iTrader: 1 / 100%	i say if it can hang with other performance cars in the 30k range then its worth it. it wont so i really only forsee a silly money doesnt matter group of people buying these. WHY CAN'T HONDA SELL A COMPTECH EDITION!!??

05-30-2007, 07:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
elsnowblow Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: san jose, CA Posts: 178 iTrader: 0 / 0%	plus rarety of the car. they will make very few a year. so one it will def hold its value.

05-30-2007, 07:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
televascular Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 275 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Just as a small correction, a true aero kit does not reduce drag. It creates controlled drag in order to add downforce at high speeds. For the Mugen Si's aero kit, all of that extra hardware is dead weight until you reach 70mph+ and begin to notice the stability improvement. Okay. So let's think about this. A Bankston Honda dealer rep posted over on Vtec.net, and this is what he said about the Mugen Si: "Price is suppsed to be Right Under $30K, but add the Destination/Handling - expect it to nudge slightly over $30K. Since there's only 500: Dont expect to pay sticker. i don't know if you were around when the 2000 S2000 was released but I heard as much as $10K mark ups back in the day. They made 10,000 of those that year. There's only 500 of these Mugen Si's. If you hear $5000 Over sticker - don't be surprised if they're the cheapest in town." I can understand the OP's point about all individual Mugen parts + installation costing more than the Mugen Si. But it's true, Honda doesn't pay retail price, and everything is installed at the factory. In a real world comparison, price is the number one factor: there are plenty of $30k cars you can buy without mark-up that are plenty quicker than a marked-up Si with a desirable tuner's name printed on the parts. An additional point of comparison: If you spent money on upgrades for a standard Civic Si sedan to equal the total price of a Mugen Si (including mark-up, since this is a real-world comparison), you would have a faster, nimbler vehicle. Think about forced induction, camber mods, even lighter wheels, functional cat-back, etc. It's quite a disappointment, seeing as how Mugen is supposed to be the pinnacle of Honda performance. It becomes quite obvious that the Mugen Si is so expensive because of the "Mugen" association and the rarity of the vehicle. In my mind, this kinda shows how Honda analyzes the market: for Americans, show is more important than go. The only good thing about the Mugen Si is that all the additional performance parts are included in the warranty.

05-30-2007, 08:42 PM	#18 (permalink)
vetkiller Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 528 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Who would want a 30-35k car that looks fast but would probably be blown away by a civic si with i/h/e? I think this car is completely ridiculous. Screw Mugen! I would rather buy aftermarket internals and SC to 320whp. Slap on some tasteful carbon fiber, a nice set of rims, etc..etc. for 30k. Why not look good and be fast? Better beat an STi with 10k in mods.

05-30-2007, 09:02 PM	#19 (permalink)
ender Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Centreville, VA Age: 24 Posts: 626 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Some great points on here. I wouldn't buy any Honda Civic that was over 30k unless is was sure to give a other 30k sports cars a run for their money. I'm not even talking about just going straight I'm talking about the twisties, braking, etc... My major complaints are about the same as everyone else expcept major flaw I see...it has four doors. I don't really have anything against four door sports car but I would never buy one. I love 2dr's. Btw, wutz vtech???