K20 reliability?

HoustonSi06 · 12-19-2006, 12:35 PM

So, my '06 Si is about to roll over 10K miles, and I got to thinking...how much reliability data do we have on the K20 series engines? I know Honda is known for their ultra-reliable engines, but most of that data is based on the B series engines. How much real reliability data do we have on the K20? Our sample range can't be that huge, it's only been through a few iterations and only been used in a few cars.

Mind you, I'm not saying it's NOT reliable..I am willing to give Honda the benefit of the doubt...but now that my warranty is nearly 1/3rd over, I got to thinking about it...

skittleslegend · 12-19-2006, 12:51 PM

No manufacturer is perfect, but it's going to be awhile before you see major issues with your vehicle. IF you do the regular maintenance. I've said it time and time again, take care of your car and your car will probably take care of you.

The folks at GM use their 5 year/100K mile warranty to sell vehicles. Honda doesn't need to do that because they already have the track record. As the number one engine builder in the world, you really don't have to worry about whether your K-series will stand up to the test of time. I know a couple of RSX's just over 100K already and while that's not really the ideal number of folks to go by, their cars are indeed fine. You mentioned the B-series, but Honda's engines in general have been very reliable. Just as a quick example, the Acura Legend, say 14 years ago, cost around $40,000USD brand new. Nowadays, you can find them for less than $10K, which means they're a lot more accessible than before. It also means finding one under 80,000 miles is extremely rare. A lot of those cars have rollback miles, in which the odometer was literally "rolled back to zero". Do a Carfax vehicle history report to find the true mileage of the vehicle and some of these Legends (C32) have come back in excess of 400,000 miles. A lot of manufacturers tout that they've seen 150K, maybe 200K. There are a couple of Corolla commercials where they talk about how the owners have seen those kinds of numbers, but NEVER have you seen one with 400,000 miles on it on, with almost 300,000 of those BEFORE the engine rebuild. Obviously, you'll want to replace the valves and things but like I said, do the regular maintenance and your vehicle will take care of you for it.

HoustonSi06 · 12-19-2006, 12:55 PM

Like I said, I'm not worried about the engine falling out of the frame or anything, and I keep up with the maintenance on my SI religiously...I was just curious what kind of reliability data we had on the K20. If I can get 150-200 out of my Si before I have to replace the engine or do any work costing over a grand (minus the clutch, I am hard on clutches, I will blow one before 50-80K, I promise), I will be happy.

spocheld · 12-19-2006, 01:01 PM

I had over 225,000 miles on my '89 Si Hatch with absolutely no major repair work. I was running a pretty much stock engine w/ I/H/E with that many miles and beating the hell out of it and never had a single problem. I am planning on having my Si for about that long as well, Honda's reputation speaks for iteself. Also my 100,000 mile warranty should help a little too

HoustonSi06 · 12-19-2006, 01:08 PM

Yah, I opted not to get the extended warranty because I was paying cash for my Si and it was just too much out of pocket. Sometimes I regret not getting it, but I hope the legendary Honda reliability holds through and it won't matter much.

bizzybearfigiblue · 12-19-2006, 01:12 PM

HONDA reliability FTW

sf-si-02 · 12-19-2006, 01:50 PM

K20 has some problems. Most notably, honda opted for a more narrow set of bearings than some of its prior motors (high end b-series and H series). The result has been a NUMBER of spun crank bearings, which is typically fatal to the crank. Visit k20a.org to read more about this.

The soltuion: well some have replaced a pre-load spring in the oil pump. It seems most people on here are not very technical so here is an easier fix:

CHECK YOUR OIL EVERY OTHER FILL UP. Honda also put a retarded oil pressure sensor in the k-series. It lights up, literally below 10psi. Mind you, you are typically at 28+ at idle and over a hundred at the upper mid range. IF YOUR OIL LIGHT EVER COMES ON, you are 95% screwed, as the motor is desperate for oil pressure seeing as how the bearings are tiny. Because the pan is not baffled, you may see the light come on during a hard turn... I saw this at the dealership when I test-drove my first fg. I bought a newwer one (right off the truck). Here is the fix: SLIGHTLY OVER FILL YOUR OIL.

Look, I had this problem with my k20a2, and it sucked, I ultimetly installed a different oil pressure sensor that lit up if the pressure went below 25psi.

Hope this helps!

***Janizary*** · 12-19-2006, 01:54 PM

+ rep for useful reply, sf-si-02!

skittleslegend · 12-19-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janizary

+ rep for useful reply, sf-si-02!

rep for that and rep for you giving him rep

HondaFamilyMan · 12-19-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skittleslegend

rep for that and rep for you giving him rep

Whoa! +1 rep for you for needing 1 more post to 6k!

HoustonSi06 · 12-19-2006, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sf-si-02

K20 has some problems. Most notably, honda opted for a more narrow set of bearings than some of its prior motors (high end b-series and H series). The result has been a NUMBER of spun crank bearings, which is typically fatal to the crank. Visit k20a.org to read more about this.

The soltuion: well some have replaced a pre-load spring in the oil pump. It seems most people on here are not very technical so here is an easier fix:

CHECK YOUR OIL EVERY OTHER FILL UP. Honda also put a retarded oil pressure sensor in the k-series. It lights up, literally below 10psi. Mind you, you are typically at 28+ at idle and over a hundred at the upper mid range. IF YOUR OIL LIGHT EVER COMES ON, you are 95% screwed, as the motor is desperate for oil pressure seeing as how the bearings are tiny. Because the pan is not baffled, you may see the light come on during a hard turn... I saw this at the dealership when I test-drove my first fg. I bought a newwer one (right off the truck). Here is the fix: SLIGHTLY OVER FILL YOUR OIL.

Look, I had this problem with my k20a2, and it sucked, I ultimetly installed a different oil pressure sensor that lit up if the pressure went below 25psi.

Hope this helps!

Is this something that Honda possibly fixed in the K20Z3? Or should we assume it's still an issue in our motor? I am not sure exactly what all this bearing and oil pressure stuff is about, so I am not sure how worried to be about this...

skittleslegend · 12-19-2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaFamilyMan

Whoa! +1 rep for you for needing 1 more post to 6k!

+1 for you for catching that even before I did....lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonSi06

Is this something that Honda possibly fixed in the K20Z3? Or should we assume it's still an issue in our motor? I am not sure exactly what all this bearing and oil pressure stuff is about, so I am not sure how worried to be about this...

Not very, considering overfilling instead of topping off is a pretty simple thing to do. Again, you just have to do the maintenance.

K20Z3Si · 12-19-2006, 05:17 PM

My uncle had a 86 Chevy truck with a 3 on the tree and I think it was a 305 v8 but i know it was a v8, it had 750,000 YES you read it right 750K! No major work done to it at all.

If you treat the car right it should last well over 200k

sf-si-02 · 12-19-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonSi06

Is this something that Honda possibly fixed in the K20Z3? Or should we assume it's still an issue in our motor? I am not sure exactly what all this bearing and oil pressure stuff is about, so I am not sure how worried to be about this...

Nope, in fact the crank numbers are the same, so I am sure you still need to worry. How bad do you need to worry? Well, keep an eye on the oil. The k-series does burn a bit (especially synthetic) you should not have to add more than a quart per oil change... look, what I am basicallysaying is keep an eye on the oil. If you are too lazy, keep an eye on the oil light during hard turning. If it so much as flickers, add oil.

K20Z3Si · 12-19-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sf-si-02

Nope, in fact the crank numbers are the same, so I am sure you still need to worry. How bad do you need to worry? Well, keep an eye on the oil. The k-series does burn a bit (especially synthetic) you should not have to add more than a quart per oil change... look, what I am basicallysaying is keep an eye on the oil. If you are too lazy, keep an eye on the oil light during hard turning. If it so much as flickers, add oil.

Mine has never drank a drop of oil, maybe your car is just ****** up.

06 Si 12k miles

***CaliGuy*** · 12-19-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K20Z3Si

Mine has never drank a drop of oil, maybe your car is just ****** up.

06 Si 12k miles

I burned a quart before my 1st oil change...many people have burned oil in the si...many...

si_civic · 12-20-2006, 12:39 AM

Rep for skittles for being Montee.

RiceNBeans · 12-20-2006, 04:40 AM

I am hoping these horror stories of the Si burning oil are either extremely uncommon or this is just engine break-in and will stop. I would not expect this car to burn oil short of 130-150k miles at a minimum.

GM can make engines that don't start consuming oil until this range so I'd seriously hope Honda engines are at least as durable or moreso. In fact one of the main reasons drawing me to the Si is the hope that I can get close to 200k out of the car before she starts consuming oil.

Mattzilla · 12-20-2006, 04:59 AM

There's a guy around here making 560whp on a stock bottom end K20A2...need I say more?

BATANG CITY JAIL · 12-20-2006, 05:16 AM

i got 12k and the valvecover gasket is already leaking oil.....kinda disappointed...
and a friend of mine have a broken syncro at 4k...

12-19-2006, 12:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
HoustonSi06 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 143 iTrader: 0 / 0%	K20 reliability? So, my '06 Si is about to roll over 10K miles, and I got to thinking...how much reliability data do we have on the K20 series engines? I know Honda is known for their ultra-reliable engines, but most of that data is based on the B series engines. How much real reliability data do we have on the K20? Our sample range can't be that huge, it's only been through a few iterations and only been used in a few cars. Mind you, I'm not saying it's NOT reliable..I am willing to give Honda the benefit of the doubt...but now that my warranty is nearly 1/3rd over, I got to thinking about it...

12-19-2006, 01:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
*Janizary* Minister of Discord Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sith Ferret dojo Posts: 6,604 Gas thread Nazi iTrader: 0 / 0%	+ rep for useful reply, sf-si-02! __________________ • Official BMW 1-Series Thread • DX/LX/EX Gas Mileage Thread • Civic Si Gas Mileage Thread • Civic Hybrid Gas Mileage Thread

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12-19-2006, 12:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
skittleslegend Senior Member Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Stowe, Vermont Age: 23 Posts: 7,825 iTrader: 1 / 100%	No manufacturer is perfect, but it's going to be awhile before you see major issues with your vehicle. IF you do the regular maintenance. I've said it time and time again, take care of your car and your car will probably take care of you. The folks at GM use their 5 year/100K mile warranty to sell vehicles. Honda doesn't need to do that because they already have the track record. As the number one engine builder in the world, you really don't have to worry about whether your K-series will stand up to the test of time. I know a couple of RSX's just over 100K already and while that's not really the ideal number of folks to go by, their cars are indeed fine. You mentioned the B-series, but Honda's engines in general have been very reliable. Just as a quick example, the Acura Legend, say 14 years ago, cost around $40,000USD brand new. Nowadays, you can find them for less than $10K, which means they're a lot more accessible than before. It also means finding one under 80,000 miles is extremely rare. A lot of those cars have rollback miles, in which the odometer was literally "rolled back to zero". Do a Carfax vehicle history report to find the true mileage of the vehicle and some of these Legends (C32) have come back in excess of 400,000 miles. A lot of manufacturers tout that they've seen 150K, maybe 200K. There are a couple of Corolla commercials where they talk about how the owners have seen those kinds of numbers, but NEVER have you seen one with 400,000 miles on it on, with almost 300,000 of those BEFORE the engine rebuild. Obviously, you'll want to replace the valves and things but like I said, do the regular maintenance and your vehicle will take care of you for it.

12-19-2006, 12:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
HoustonSi06 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 143 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Like I said, I'm not worried about the engine falling out of the frame or anything, and I keep up with the maintenance on my SI religiously...I was just curious what kind of reliability data we had on the K20. If I can get 150-200 out of my Si before I have to replace the engine or do any work costing over a grand (minus the clutch, I am hard on clutches, I will blow one before 50-80K, I promise), I will be happy.

12-19-2006, 01:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
spocheld Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Fresno, CA Age: 25 Posts: 1,358 Jeff iTrader: 2 / 100%	I had over 225,000 miles on my '89 Si Hatch with absolutely no major repair work. I was running a pretty much stock engine w/ I/H/E with that many miles and beating the hell out of it and never had a single problem. I am planning on having my Si for about that long as well, Honda's reputation speaks for iteself. Also my 100,000 mile warranty should help a little too

12-19-2006, 01:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
HoustonSi06 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 143 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Yah, I opted not to get the extended warranty because I was paying cash for my Si and it was just too much out of pocket. Sometimes I regret not getting it, but I hope the legendary Honda reliability holds through and it won't matter much.

12-19-2006, 01:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
bizzybearfigiblue Senior Member Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 18,279 iTrader: 4 / 100%	HONDA reliability FTW

12-19-2006, 01:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
sf-si-02 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: your mom (so cal) Posts: 630 iTrader: 3 / 100%	K20 has some problems. Most notably, honda opted for a more narrow set of bearings than some of its prior motors (high end b-series and H series). The result has been a NUMBER of spun crank bearings, which is typically fatal to the crank. Visit k20a.org to read more about this. The soltuion: well some have replaced a pre-load spring in the oil pump. It seems most people on here are not very technical so here is an easier fix: CHECK YOUR OIL EVERY OTHER FILL UP. Honda also put a retarded oil pressure sensor in the k-series. It lights up, literally below 10psi. Mind you, you are typically at 28+ at idle and over a hundred at the upper mid range. IF YOUR OIL LIGHT EVER COMES ON, you are 95% screwed, as the motor is desperate for oil pressure seeing as how the bearings are tiny. Because the pan is not baffled, you may see the light come on during a hard turn... I saw this at the dealership when I test-drove my first fg. I bought a newwer one (right off the truck). Here is the fix: SLIGHTLY OVER FILL YOUR OIL. Look, I had this problem with my k20a2, and it sucked, I ultimetly installed a different oil pressure sensor that lit up if the pressure went below 25psi. Hope this helps!

12-19-2006, 05:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
K20Z3Si Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: IL Posts: 158 iTrader: 0 / 0%	My uncle had a 86 Chevy truck with a 3 on the tree and I think it was a 305 v8 but i know it was a v8, it had 750,000 YES you read it right 750K! No major work done to it at all. If you treat the car right it should last well over 200k

12-20-2006, 12:39 AM	#17 (permalink)
si_civic Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: B.C. ,Canada Age: 30 Posts: 4,604 A/Cst.D.F.Abate iTrader: 10 / 100%	Rep for skittles for being Montee.

12-20-2006, 04:40 AM	#18 (permalink)
RiceNBeans Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 42 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I am hoping these horror stories of the Si burning oil are either extremely uncommon or this is just engine break-in and will stop. I would not expect this car to burn oil short of 130-150k miles at a minimum. GM can make engines that don't start consuming oil until this range so I'd seriously hope Honda engines are at least as durable or moreso. In fact one of the main reasons drawing me to the Si is the hope that I can get close to 200k out of the car before she starts consuming oil.

12-20-2006, 04:59 AM	#19 (permalink)
Mattzilla Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South FL Posts: 547 Matt iTrader: 2 / 100%	There's a guy around here making 560whp on a stock bottom end K20A2...need I say more?

12-20-2006, 05:16 AM	#20 (permalink)
BATANG CITY JAIL Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Durham, NC..£╖╒◙o├æ Posts: 8,255 iTrader: 10 / 100%	i got 12k and the valvecover gasket is already leaking oil.....kinda disappointed... and a friend of mine have a broken syncro at 4k...