Prospective SI asks: Has Honda quality gone downhill?

RiceisNice · 06-09-2008, 12:28 PM

A month or so back I decided to buy a Civic SI after considering a number of other cars. I owned a Civic many moons ago and loved it, so I'm still leaning that way. But I've been surprised (shocked?) to read all of the complaints in this forum about recurring and common issues with the Civic SIs. The most glaring include "hanging" revs, problems with third gear, sub-standard mileage, crappy paint and cheap interior materials. Now, I'd normally dismiss most complaints as normal since no car is perfect, but these negative comments are coming from a loyal group of enthusiasts on a Honda forum. Question I have is this: are most of you disappointed with the common problems I've listed above - and Honda's seeming dismissal of them? Do you see this as a degradation of a once-wonderful product, or not?

By comparison, I've spent some time on a few VW boards, since I'm also considering a GTI 4-door. By comparison, I see relatively few complaints. I'm impressed by articles about VW's superior build quality, and by the fact that the GTI - with relatively few mods - can easily outperform a comparably modded SI while turning in similar mileage stats. Could it be that Honda has rested on their laurels while other companies have made substantial gains in their average quality and performance?

This is not a bait thread, so please avoid responding with pro-Honda hyperventilating. I'm asking for your honest takes. And again, remember that I've always been a Honda fan. I'm just facing a large purchase, I want to make the right choice, and I respect the collective wisdom in this place.

Thanks.

B-Stylz · 06-09-2008, 12:31 PM

I'd say this happened the day they were not 100% made in Japan. Happens man.

habitat · 06-09-2008, 12:39 PM

I think viewing complaints about a Honda from a Honda forum and likewise VW complaints on an VW forum can be pretty biased... Why don't you check out an unbiased source of comparison, like the JDPowers ratings?

2008 Civic Coupe (not necessarily SI)
2007 VW GTI

B-Stylz · 06-09-2008, 12:41 PM

I have heard of so many VW issues its not even funny. Neither car is perfect. Get the car that talks to you more.

***Celcius*** · 06-09-2008, 12:54 PM

My car used to talk to me, but I shut that bitch up because she got on my nerves. :/

I love our cars, but GTIs are great cars as well. One thing I loved was the DSG. The Volkswagen has pretty impressive suspension work as well. I chose the Civic for aesthetic purposes. I've always been a fan of hatchbacks but the GTI didn't do anything for me. I think the unique interior design of the Civic gives it a futuristic feel as well.

Rev hang is unfortunate, but it's there for a reason. I don't think the car has a cheap interior at all. That's really more of a subjective comment made by a select group of members here.

bjjer · 06-09-2008, 01:07 PM

I dont own an SI and im telling you to buy the SI over the VW. VW quality is shiet, everybody I have known who has owned one has had problems up the ass. The SI is not made in Japan anymore so the quality is suffering a little, but it is still way above the VW.

robertw · 06-09-2008, 01:31 PM

I just think my expectations were set high since I figured I'm buying a Honda and thought nothing ever goes wrong with Honda's. I have had some issues, most were taken care of, but the reality is this is an econo-box and it is what it is. Things will rattle in both the VW and Si eventually, some materials will wear faster then others (Si seats wear exceptionally fast), and VW/Honda have different reputations, just pick one that you feel you won't regret the most.

I had the same decision you have to make right now. There are complaints and rants on this forum (I have vented a few times myself), but VW has an entire site about compaints, so I guess everything is the same shit.

My VW Jetta GLS VR6 sucks!
Volkswagen Lemon Law - VW Links

b854th · 06-09-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjer

I dont own an SI and im telling you to buy the SI over the VW. VW quality is shiet, everybody I have known who has owned one has had problems up the ass. The SI is not made in Japan anymore so the quality is suffering a little, but it is still way above the VW.

Hmmm.....that's funny because all the people I know who own or have owned a VW always speaks highly of them. The same applies to Honda owners. But my experience with Honda is as follows:

Wife has a 98 Accord V6 Automatic. The car has 92,000 miles on it and we are living on borrowed time with it because the transmission is on it's last leg. We've also had to replace the motor mounts, which is not a common issue, and the paint has faded beyond repair by detailing. I just purchased a Civic EX sedan less than 3 weeks ago and the molding on the drivers side roof is already falling off. When merging on the highways, when I punch it with low RPM's, I nearly get killed due to serious throttle lag.

By using your argument, maybe this gentleman should be purchasing a VW since my experience with Honda has been crap and my experience should count for everyone's experience.

BigNose · 06-09-2008, 01:41 PM

I used to own a 2004 RX-8 GT, and whenever I visited the RX8club forum, more than 3/4 of their threads were complaints, about engine flooding, rattling noise inside and out, not fast enough, low end torque, crazily bad mpg, high consumption on engine oil, not as fast as a Mustang, suck ass stock tires... it's a chick's car, etc... it's really crazy. & I always wondered, why the hell did you guys buy the car then?!... very weird. I bought the car because I loved it, and I have had no problem with it whatsoever.

I think it's natural that most people complain about their own cars, especially on an internet forum, cause they usually visit the forum when they have problems and seek for asistance. But then again, I don't really blame them, RX8 is a great car, but I have never really trusted Mazda's quality. That's why I'm back with Honda.

Just my 2 cents.

nayilsi · 06-09-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Stylz

I'd say this happened the day they were not 100% made in Japan. Happens man.

nayilsi · 06-09-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigNose

I used to own a 2004 RX-8 GT, and whenever I visited the RX8club forum, more than 3/4 of their threads were complaints, about engine flooding, rattling noise inside and out, not fast enough, low end torque, crazily bad mpg, high consumption on engine oil, not as fast as a Mustang, suck ass stock tires... it's a chick's car, etc... it's really crazy. & I always wondered, why the hell did you guys buy the car then?!... very weird. I bought the car because I loved it, and I have had no problem with it whatsoever.

I think it's natural that most people complain about their own cars, especially on an internet forum, cause they usually visit the forum when they have problems and seek for asistance. But then again, I don't really blame them, RX8 is a great car, but I have never really trusted Mazda's quality. That's why I'm back with Honda.

Just my 2 cents.

pretty annoying they made an auto version of it... thats a sign of ... Potential pu$ification of a legend.

BuddhaBoi · 06-09-2008, 02:16 PM

Not every car is perfect even though Car manufactorers spend millions on R&D on their vehicles but still problems occur. Nothing will ever be perfect.

BuddhaBoi · 06-09-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nayilsi

pretty annoying they made an auto version of it... thats a sign of ... Potential pu$ification of a legend.

In my opinion, I think Mazda was trying to aiming for another target market with the RX-8 auto, Ive been seeing a lot of older ladies driven them.

RiceisNice · 06-09-2008, 02:30 PM

Great input - thanks.

habitat wrote: "I think viewing complaints about a Honda from a Honda forum and likewise VW complaints on an VW forum can be pretty biased... Why don't you check out an unbiased source of comparison, like the JDPowers ratings?"

Great point, but it still doesn't address the fact that I see far fewer complaints re: performance and build quality on the VW forum than I see in here. I'm trying hard to justify a Honda purchase, but it's tough to ignore the solid reviews (and lack of posts on recurring/common problems) most owners are giving the '06 and up GTIs.

b845th wrote: "I just purchased a Civic EX sedan less than 3 weeks ago...when merging on the highways, when I punch it with low RPM's, I nearly get killed due to serious throttle lag."

Ya know, that leads me to an important point: In my opinion (and despite commonly held notion that fast cars are dangerous cars) a car with good performance stats is FAR safer than a slower car. Sportier cars brake better, which can get you out of trouble. They accelerate quicker, which can also get you out of trouble. And they're more nimble, which...well, you get the idea. In another thread I've asked about the merits of an EX versus an SI, and it seems like a pretty clear economy-versus-performance debate. But beyond crash tests and air bags, a quicker car is a safer car, in my estimation. Should be noted that the GTI gets good safety ratings, and that the stock car is much easier to make fast than is an SI. For $600 or so, a simple reflash converts the GTI into a little monster. For all of the take I hear surrounding SI mods, I don't know of an easy way to tweak an SI so it'll run with a GTI. Oops. There I go again focusing on performance over gas mileage.

As for the RX8s, buddy of mine bought one, and he was terribly disappointed. Slow gas guzzler, though it handled very well.

B-Stylz · 06-09-2008, 02:31 PM

Low rpm's aren't your friend. Make the downshift.

BuddhaBoi · 06-09-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Stylz

Low rpm's aren't your friend. Make the downshift.

Haha damn

bjjer · 06-09-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b854th

Hmmm.....that's funny because all the people I know who own or have owned a VW always speaks highly of them. The same applies to Honda owners. But my experience with Honda is as follows:

Wife has a 98 Accord V6 Automatic. The car has 92,000 miles on it and we are living on borrowed time with it because the transmission is on it's last leg. We've also had to replace the motor mounts, which is not a common issue, and the paint has faded beyond repair by detailing. I just purchased a Civic EX sedan less than 3 weeks ago and the molding on the drivers side roof is already falling off. When merging on the highways, when I punch it with low RPM's, I nearly get killed due to serious throttle lag.

By using your argument, maybe this gentleman should be purchasing a VW since my experience with Honda has been crap and my experience should count for everyone's experience.

Or your experience and my experience will cancel each other out and he will go buy a Kia.

RiceisNice · 06-09-2008, 02:44 PM

I can't see a Kia in my future. Even at gunpoint.

millenix · 06-09-2008, 02:48 PM

Has quality went down? Or has access to flaws went way up with the ability to access forums on the internet? The quality of vehicles before we all browsed forums was much closer tied to word of mouth. I haven't owned a car yet that didn't have forum post after forum post complaining about recurring issues. Most cars of a flaw of some sort, and that flaw persists through a majority of the product. This is why sometimes there are safety recalls, thankfully the biggest issues with our cars aren't going to cause the car to explode, or leave us with airbags un-deployed.

jterp7 · 06-09-2008, 02:50 PM

Test drive both and decide which suits you better..I've test drove the 2dr and 4dr versions of both the Si and the new GTI and can't get over how heavy the GTI feels. Yes its fast and it can be optioned with leather, but it doesn't have the toss ability that the Si has.

Another difference is that if you can't or don't want to drive stick, the GTI can be optioned with DSG and acceleration doesn't suffer, compare that to the differences between a stick and auto Civic EX

06-09-2008, 12:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
RiceisNice Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Prospective SI buyer asks: Has Honda quality gone downhill? A month or so back I decided to buy a Civic SI after considering a number of other cars. I owned a Civic many moons ago and loved it, so I'm still leaning that way. But I've been surprised (shocked?) to read all of the complaints in this forum about recurring and common issues with the Civic SIs. The most glaring include "hanging" revs, problems with third gear, sub-standard mileage, crappy paint and cheap interior materials. Now, I'd normally dismiss most complaints as normal since no car is perfect, but these negative comments are coming from a loyal group of enthusiasts on a Honda forum. Question I have is this: are most of you disappointed with the common problems I've listed above - and Honda's seeming dismissal of them? Do you see this as a degradation of a once-wonderful product, or not? By comparison, I've spent some time on a few VW boards, since I'm also considering a GTI 4-door. By comparison, I see relatively few complaints. I'm impressed by articles about VW's superior build quality, and by the fact that the GTI - with relatively few mods - can easily outperform a comparably modded SI while turning in similar mileage stats. Could it be that Honda has rested on their laurels while other companies have made substantial gains in their average quality and performance? This is not a bait thread, so please avoid responding with pro-Honda hyperventilating. I'm asking for your honest takes. And again, remember that I've always been a Honda fan. I'm just facing a large purchase, I want to make the right choice, and I respect the collective wisdom in this place. Thanks.

06-09-2008, 12:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
*Celcius* www.yospeed.com Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Anaheim, CA Age: 23 Posts: 4,563 David Yonehara iTrader: 19 / 100%	My car used to talk to me, but I shut that bitch up because she got on my nerves. :/ I love our cars, but GTIs are great cars as well. One thing I loved was the DSG. The Volkswagen has pretty impressive suspension work as well. I chose the Civic for aesthetic purposes. I've always been a fan of hatchbacks but the GTI didn't do anything for me. I think the unique interior design of the Civic gives it a futuristic feel as well. Rev hang is unfortunate, but it's there for a reason. I don't think the car has a cheap interior at all. That's really more of a subjective comment made by a select group of members here. __________________

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06-09-2008, 12:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
B-Stylz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,667 Choose your battles iTrader: 0 / 0%	I'd say this happened the day they were not 100% made in Japan. Happens man.

06-09-2008, 12:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
habitat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NorCal Age: 23 Posts: 2,636 iTrader: 1 / 100%	I think viewing complaints about a Honda from a Honda forum and likewise VW complaints on an VW forum can be pretty biased... Why don't you check out an unbiased source of comparison, like the JDPowers ratings? 2008 Civic Coupe (not necessarily SI) 2007 VW GTI

06-09-2008, 12:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
B-Stylz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,667 Choose your battles iTrader: 0 / 0%	I have heard of so many VW issues its not even funny. Neither car is perfect. Get the car that talks to you more.

06-09-2008, 01:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
bjjer Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 29 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I dont own an SI and im telling you to buy the SI over the VW. VW quality is shiet, everybody I have known who has owned one has had problems up the ass. The SI is not made in Japan anymore so the quality is suffering a little, but it is still way above the VW.

06-09-2008, 01:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
robertw Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Western Mass Posts: 274 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I just think my expectations were set high since I figured I'm buying a Honda and thought nothing ever goes wrong with Honda's. I have had some issues, most were taken care of, but the reality is this is an econo-box and it is what it is. Things will rattle in both the VW and Si eventually, some materials will wear faster then others (Si seats wear exceptionally fast), and VW/Honda have different reputations, just pick one that you feel you won't regret the most. I had the same decision you have to make right now. There are complaints and rants on this forum (I have vented a few times myself), but VW has an entire site about compaints, so I guess everything is the same shit. My VW Jetta GLS VR6 sucks! Volkswagen Lemon Law - VW Links

06-09-2008, 01:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
BigNose Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 25 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I used to own a 2004 RX-8 GT, and whenever I visited the RX8club forum, more than 3/4 of their threads were complaints, about engine flooding, rattling noise inside and out, not fast enough, low end torque, crazily bad mpg, high consumption on engine oil, not as fast as a Mustang, suck ass stock tires... it's a chick's car, etc... it's really crazy. & I always wondered, why the hell did you guys buy the car then?!... very weird. I bought the car because I loved it, and I have had no problem with it whatsoever. I think it's natural that most people complain about their own cars, especially on an internet forum, cause they usually visit the forum when they have problems and seek for asistance. But then again, I don't really blame them, RX8 is a great car, but I have never really trusted Mazda's quality. That's why I'm back with Honda. Just my 2 cents.

06-09-2008, 02:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
BuddhaBoi Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Minisoda (also known as Narnia) Posts: 64 Steve iTrader: 0 / 0%	Not every car is perfect even though Car manufactorers spend millions on R&D on their vehicles but still problems occur. Nothing will ever be perfect.

06-09-2008, 02:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
RiceisNice Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Great input - thanks. habitat wrote: "I think viewing complaints about a Honda from a Honda forum and likewise VW complaints on an VW forum can be pretty biased... Why don't you check out an unbiased source of comparison, like the JDPowers ratings?" Great point, but it still doesn't address the fact that I see far fewer complaints re: performance and build quality on the VW forum than I see in here. I'm trying hard to justify a Honda purchase, but it's tough to ignore the solid reviews (and lack of posts on recurring/common problems) most owners are giving the '06 and up GTIs. b845th wrote: "I just purchased a Civic EX sedan less than 3 weeks ago...when merging on the highways, when I punch it with low RPM's, I nearly get killed due to serious throttle lag." Ya know, that leads me to an important point: In my opinion (and despite commonly held notion that fast cars are dangerous cars) a car with good performance stats is FAR safer than a slower car. Sportier cars brake better, which can get you out of trouble. They accelerate quicker, which can also get you out of trouble. And they're more nimble, which...well, you get the idea. In another thread I've asked about the merits of an EX versus an SI, and it seems like a pretty clear economy-versus-performance debate. But beyond crash tests and air bags, a quicker car is a safer car, in my estimation. Should be noted that the GTI gets good safety ratings, and that the stock car is much easier to make fast than is an SI. For $600 or so, a simple reflash converts the GTI into a little monster. For all of the take I hear surrounding SI mods, I don't know of an easy way to tweak an SI so it'll run with a GTI. Oops. There I go again focusing on performance over gas mileage. As for the RX8s, buddy of mine bought one, and he was terribly disappointed. Slow gas guzzler, though it handled very well.

06-09-2008, 02:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
B-Stylz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,667 Choose your battles iTrader: 0 / 0%	Low rpm's aren't your friend. Make the downshift.

06-09-2008, 02:44 PM	#18 (permalink)
RiceisNice Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I can't see a Kia in my future. Even at gunpoint.

06-09-2008, 02:48 PM	#19 (permalink)
millenix Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lewisville, TX Age: 25 Posts: 92 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Has quality went down? Or has access to flaws went way up with the ability to access forums on the internet? The quality of vehicles before we all browsed forums was much closer tied to word of mouth. I haven't owned a car yet that didn't have forum post after forum post complaining about recurring issues. Most cars of a flaw of some sort, and that flaw persists through a majority of the product. This is why sometimes there are safety recalls, thankfully the biggest issues with our cars aren't going to cause the car to explode, or leave us with airbags un-deployed.

06-09-2008, 02:50 PM	#20 (permalink)
jterp7 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 52 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Test drive both and decide which suits you better..I've test drove the 2dr and 4dr versions of both the Si and the new GTI and can't get over how heavy the GTI feels. Yes its fast and it can be optioned with leather, but it doesn't have the toss ability that the Si has. Another difference is that if you can't or don't want to drive stick, the GTI can be optioned with DSG and acceleration doesn't suffer, compare that to the differences between a stick and auto Civic EX