Hybrid Markup

[ELMO]

I went to my local Honda dealership in Torrance, CA today to take a look at the Civic Hybrid. Right now I am trying to decide if I want to buy a Hybrid w/Navi or an EX Coupe w/Navi (manual).

With rising gas prices a hybrid is very tempting, however right now all the dealerships in the area have a $2-3K markup over MSRP on their hybrids with limited stock. With an EX I could probably get at least $1K under MSRP. This brings the hybrid cost to around $26850 and the EX to $19460 (w/o destination and TTL). I didn't inquire about negotiating the price on hybrids because I didn’t want to spend time talking price with a sales person, so the price difference might be a bit less.

That is a $7390 difference in price. Even with gas at $7 a gallon it would take 6 years for the hybrid to pay for itself at which point I would probably be in the market for a new car (driving 15K miles per year with 29mpg for EX and 45mpg for hybrid).

What are your thoughts about the markup; is it just reactionary to the gas spikes? Is it worth it to buy a hybrid with the markup or should I just go with the EX? I can always wait until after the summer when the ’09's come in to get a ’08 and after the summer gas rises have hopefully leveled out so perhaps hybrids will go back to or under MSRP.

[wing_gundam]

Aren`t there government rebates?


You should be able to get 2K off I think

[Jayhawker]

I mentioned this in another thread. The cost difference will take quite some time before you make up the difference in fuel saving. If you want a Hybrid, call Tempe Honda here in AZ. They are selling theirs at MSRP + any dealer ads. They are a Penske store and they don't charge over sticker.If you want a regular Civic, they sell them for invoice all day and at times they will go into hold back. You should also check Norm Reeves, as they are the largest volume Honda dealer here in the US.

[ELMO]

There is an IRS rebate, but it hits 25% phase out July 1, 2008, which means only a $525 credit and it would be unlikely that I have my downpayment together before July.

As far as Norm Reeves, they only have 3 hybrids right now. Thanks for the advice on Tempe Honda I will have to give them a call.

I am more interested if anyone thinks if the markup on hybrids are here to stay or if it is just temporary because of recent rises in gas prices.

[Jayhawker]

The "mark ups" are going to be there as long as the demand is there for the car.
I remember last summer the dealers couldn't give the Hybrids away and now look at what's going on. I personally would never pay anything over invoice for a car. If you really have to have a hybrid, head over there on the last day of the month.

[Kennedy]

It's CA too... Markup heaven.

I bought my 2008 Civic HCH with Nav from Pohanka Honda in Fredericksburg, VA for $500 under invoice 4 weeks ago.

Demand is not gonna subside either, at least not in the next 2-3 years, when all the other manufacturers start introducing more competition.

[tdsoup]

Originally Posted by ELMO

I went to my local Honda dealership in Torrance, CA today to take a look at the Civic Hybrid. Right now I am trying to decide if I want to buy a Hybrid w/Navi or an EX Coupe w/Navi (manual).

With rising gas prices a hybrid is very tempting, however right now all the dealerships in the area have a $2-3K markup over MSRP on their hybrids with limited stock. With an EX I could probably get at least $1K under MSRP. This brings the hybrid cost to around $26850 and the EX to $19460 (w/o destination and TTL). I didn't inquire about negotiating the price on hybrids because I didn’t want to spend time talking price with a sales person, so the price difference might be a bit less.

That is a $7390 difference in price. Even with gas at $7 a gallon it would take 6 years for the hybrid to pay for itself at which point I would probably be in the market for a new car (driving 15K miles per year with 29mpg for EX and 45mpg for hybrid).

What are your thoughts about the markup; is it just reactionary to the gas spikes? Is it worth it to buy a hybrid with the markup or should I just go with the EX? I can always wait until after the summer when the ’09's come in to get a ’08 and after the summer gas rises have hopefully leveled out so perhaps hybrids will go back to or under MSRP.

To me mark-ups are just an attempt to try and get more money from you. Those that don't want/know how to negotiate are who they are looking for. Tehy are after one think--the dollar. If you have good credit or cash or both, then you are in the driver's seat. My son had his car totaled and bought a new Prius Touring $525 under invoice from a dealer here in northern CA, who said they never discount Touring models (let along dig into the hold back). I still get ads from many of the dealers that Im contacted with sales fliers, so the deals are out there for sure.

If you want the Honda Civic with Nav, then make the dealers play your rules. Don't even acknowledge the supplemental sticker, or laughingly acknowledge it by saying something "if you have a willing and able buyer with credit/cash in hand ready to buy and willing to pay this extra fee, then I am not your buyer" and walk away. Let them STOP you from leaving by starting at invoice. Remember, the economy sucks right now, so if you have the cash or credit, you are king.

[volvo9]

Originally Posted by tdsoup

To me mark-ups are just an attempt to try and get more money from you.

Yep, a dealer sees a demand for the car and raise teh price hoping to make a huge profit. The sad thing is that people will actually buy a marked up car.

If I where you I'd say get lost and then take a trip to another dealer. Driving a few hours if need be is worth a $3k savings.

[Osager]

$26850 is ludicrous. Do not pay that. I am very happy with my HCH but I paid about $800 under sticker (no nav). Please do not pay that stooopid markup. Please. It only encourages them. Call around. I love CA but stories like this make me feel sorry for you leftcoasters.

I just filled my tank this morning: drove 534 miles on 10.89 gal. Love the hybrid powetrain.

Good luck.

[Gclipse]

Paid 23,500 for my navi in S. Oregon.

[Exeon]

wow, hybrids really have good resale value now. Just checked my local car sale listings. Wow.

[psyshack]

Its Cali. The land of fruits and nuts.

HCHII's are below msrp here.

[pks17]

Dont bother witha hybrid if your concerned only about saving money.
They hybrid is more of a statement, that you concerned about the enviroment and all that.
When it comes to saving fuel, it might take you 6 years to make back the difference, but at that time you may have to be thinking about buying a new battery for the car. At the moment, thats a 7grand bill , labour included.
Also, the hybrid has lousy pickup power, and even lousier when the battery is not fully charged, its not so efficient in the winter months, or the highway.
I would wait it out for another 5 years to see where hybrid technology is really going.

[spinner]

Originally Posted by pks17

They hybrid is more of a statement, that you concerned about the enviroment and all that.

The Honda Civic Hybrid doesn't sell itself at dealerships in the same way as a regular Civic Sedan or a Toyota Prius would (the Prius especially for the street cred reason). May and June have been record-breaking months for sales of the regular Civics in the States. When shopping for the Hybrid, go to the Salesperson with the tack that they need you to take the stock off their hands.

pks17, you have previously posted false information in this forum. If you don't want a HCH for yourself then so be it, but please let others carry out their discussions without your misleading interjections.

[tonyCiviCitalia]

OP, id get the EX if there was that bad a mark up. Well i'd honestly pick neither, but in your situation EX fore sure

[FlyingBrickyard]

If you're looking to save money skip the hybrid.

There isn't one yet that I've seen that is cost effective, and I spent a good bit of time kicking around the idea a couple of years back.

But when I worked out the numbers, assuming $3/gal for gas (this was when it was still $2.80 something), I would have had to put roughly 300,000 miles on the hybrid just to break even.

Not save any money. Just to come out even with the gas burning version and the fuel purchases required to run it for that amount of time.

As it stands, we'd have to be looking at roughly $9/gal before the break even point starts to become more 'realistic'.

Hybrids are neat cars and I love the concept. I'd love to own one myself (What I'd really love to have if such things were possible, is a lightweight, all electric vehicle powered by RTGs, but that'll never happen). But at this point in time the only reason to get a hybrid is for the "statement" or because you want to burn as little gasoline as possible. If you're coming at it from a finanical standpoint, it just doesn't make sense.

Truthfully, the mileage offered by most hybrids sold in the US isn't even that impressive. There are many diesel powered cars that get 50-60 mpg, no hybrid technology required. Unfortunately, finding them stateside is rather difficult.

Now, if we could pair that kind of efficiency with a hybrid setup - then we'd really be talking.

In short:

Get a hybrid because you want a hybrid. Not because you want to save money. They're still not cost effective yet.

[spinner]

If cost of ownership is so important, then you should be getting a Honda Fit instead. Civic isn't the best bang for the buck.

My Hybrid came out slightly cheaper than an LX Sedan with AT, and it is a more luxurious car. The IMA on mine is already "paid off" and for city driving I can be fairly sure that I'm using half as much fuel as most others. It's all savings going forward. Battery is warranted for 8 years and it will be $2000 or less to replace (not including labour).

[Jayhawker]

Originally Posted by FlyingBrickyard

...Get a hybrid because you want a hybrid. Not because you want to save money. They're still not cost effective yet.

I got my Hybrid for the HOV lane use. To you, time might not be money, but to me it is. Your "blanket" statement of the car not being cost effective might apply to you, but not to others. Unfortunately for my, I have a 25 mile commute (each way) every day and the HOV lane shaves off at least 20 minutes (each way)a day and if there is a wreck, it will save me an hour or more.

And most definitely the price increase from a Civic LX to the Hybrid will buy a lot of gas. If you talk to a hypermiller (which I will never do) though, they will tell you how to recoup your costs in gas savings much quicker. I got the full tax credit last year but I am pretty sure it will be less than half this year.

So, to me the extra cost was worth it. Do I miss my SI? Hell yeah but the benefits of the Hybrid far out weigh the fun factor of the SI.