The Hybrid Debate - Is it worth it?

[spinner]

Originally Posted by CivicHybridOwner

My payback ratio, taking into account the $4k hybrid premium over the entry level Civic LX (I don't consider the DX because I would never buy a car without a/c) is calculated as follows:

I almost agree with the assessment that the hybrid is most like the LX, but let's not forget all the additional luxury features that make the hybrid both superior and inferior to the EX. For Canadians, the hybrid has a features that are only available on the Acura CSX: Auto climate control (this should be a big deal, people); And, turn signals on the side mirrors.

Any ways, like some of the other arguments here, the fair evaluation of a hybrid's "premium" is to get it as close to a similar model. I think the Civic Hybrid is a mix of LX and EX; A Nissan Altima hybrid must be measured against an Altima 2.5 with the SL package (minus the sunroof). A few thousand Canadian dollars difference in most cases.

Since you mentioned the LX, I want to point out that my Civic Hybrid's total cost is slightly less than an LX sedan (w/ auto trans. of course). I negotiated a mark-up of 1.7% over invoice (over $1000 off MSRP). Afterwards, I claimed a $2000 rebate from the Canadian federal EcoAuto programme. Also, because I live in Ontario, I claimed a $2000 rebate (Max. $2000 off the retail sales tax) from the Ontario Province for hybrid vehicles. If one lived in British Columbia, they would get the $2000 off provincial sales tax at point of sale. Thus, I paid less than for an LX. Or, if you like, the hybrid premium, plus the aforementioned luxury features were free. Similarly, I would tell someone living in Ontario that wants to buy a Nissan Altima 2.5SL that they would be foolish not to consider the hybrid edition, since it is both cheaper and has more power.

Of course, few people have choices of what jurisdiction-based incentives are available to them. So, the last point I want to bring up is that city driving gives a tremendous savings of fuel. Compared to other compacts, you should see 40-50% fuel savings in the city. You'll save more fuel than a Fit or Yaris and drive in a much nicer car at the same time. The Civic is also the safest car, something you cannot expect from sub-compacts, or even most other cars in the Civic's size class. The big question is whether you drive in traffic or if your driving is mostly clear-sailing high speed.

I'm opinionated on this, and I only have 7 months ownership at the time of this writing, but I am convinced that the HCH-II (Honda Civic Hybrid, gen. 2, for short) is the greatest value you can get in a car. It works. It's here and it is now, and it's considered reliable.

[Fred S]

If the $$$ are that tight, look for one used. The price difference will be closer.

Who would you rather send your $$$ to?
a) Middle east so they can buy bombs and kill us
b) Engineers who are motivated to give us the best possible fuel economy?

[whtdvl]

Originally Posted by Fred S

If the $$$ are that tight, look for one used. The price difference will be closer.

Who would you rather send your $$$ to?
a) Middle east so they can buy bombs and kill us
b) Engineers who are motivated to give us the best possible fuel economy?

nice way of lookin at it

[duk]

Originally Posted by Fred S

If the $$$ are that tight, look for one used. The price difference will be closer.

Who would you rather send your $$$ to?
a) Middle east so they can buy bombs and kill us
b) Engineers who are motivated to give us the best possible fuel economy?

Are you serious?
I hope your not in politics!

[bluedevil]

Hybrid, in my opinion isn't worth it anymore, atleast not in California, no more HOV lane stickers, and no more tax credits.
I was in those same shoes 3 months ago, I needed a commuter car to drive 200 miles a day to and from work. I was focusing on three choices, Prius, Civic Hybrid, and Civic GX (compressed natural gas). I ended up buying the GX and I got to say it was the best thing for me. The power train is the same as the hybrid, but it is on a LX platform, and it only comes in one configuration, no options.
It is the most expensive of all Civics' but you do get a 4000.00 tax credit from the I.R.S., as well as a 3000.00 rebate from the California Air Resources Board. Gas mileage is actually better than the EPA estimates I usually get 40 hwy and 32 City, and the price is usperb especially now that Gasoline just shot up, the average price per gallon is about 2.40 but at the Riverside City yard I pay 1.58 per gallon, So I fill up with about 13.00 bucks and the 8 gal. tank gives anywhere from 240 - 300 miles depends on the style of driving.
and oh yeah you can still get the HOV lane stickers for this, I just received mine two weeks ago...
for those of you unfamiliar with this vehicle yoiu can go to cngchat.com or even better here is the link to Honda Civic GX, 2008 Honda Civic GX - the Official Honda Web Site
and if your interseted as to the locations for fuel go to cngprices.com

[whtdvl]

wow that is a lot cheaper that 87oct..

too bad they don't have any cng stations in central florida..the only one listed in the entire state was down in the south florida area

[Fred S]

I would rather rely on eating shards of glass for nutrition than be part of politics, aside from voting in normal elections.

Originally Posted by duk

Are you serious?
I hope your not in politics!

[Fred S]

Originally Posted by bluedevil

...The power train is the same as the hybrid, but it is on a LX platform...

The hybrid is a 1.8 with 5 spd automatic? Nope.

Hybrid is 1.3 with a CVT.

[fox]

Originally Posted by Fred S

I would rather rely on eating shards of glass for nutrition than be part of politics, aside from voting in normal elections.

then don't vote. it's people who don't partake in politics and then vote who screw things over. way to be the stupid populous.
/flame.

i just skimmed over this thread, so i hope i'm not restating...
Hybrids not only save fuel, but are easier on the environment. emissions are partial-zero i believe. or something of that sort. so for some dishing out the extra money for less emissions is worth it.
plug-in model hybrids/ full electric cars, have a serious flaw.
where is the electricity coming from?
most will be from coal burning plants. since that's the most popular energy making thing the U.S. uses. Unless you have a giant wind turbine in your backyard, it seems fairly pointless.

[Fred S]

Yeah you took my statement a little out of context...


The system for enabling plug-in hybrids is still in its infancy. Once there is an industry in full swing, more consumers will be getting setup with alternative energy sources, mainly solar. The appeal to be able to "drive for free" (forgoing the initial investment) will be so great that it will be a monumental hinge point in history.

This is all ironic because 100 years ago the electric car got laughed out of town. The idea for one just came 100 years too soon, that's all. Now with new battery technology and more advanced electronics, it can become a reality.

Originally Posted by fox

then don't vote. it's people who don't partake in politics and then vote who screw things over. way to be the stupid populous.
/flame.

i just skimmed over this thread, so i hope i'm not restating...
Hybrids not only save fuel, but are easier on the environment. emissions are partial-zero i believe. or something of that sort. so for some dishing out the extra money for less emissions is worth it.
plug-in model hybrids/ full electric cars, have a serious flaw.
where is the electricity coming from?
most will be from coal burning plants. since that's the most popular energy making thing the U.S. uses. Unless you have a giant wind turbine in your backyard, it seems fairly pointless.

[wing_gundam]

I don't remember having a heated pool/house option when I bought my civic?

If you want to talk about solar powered houses please start a thread under the water cooler. This thread is about the true cost of a hybrid CAR

[psyshack]

You have to drive a hybrid for hybrids sake. I can jump in a buddys Insight and hypermile it with ease to 80 mpg. No problem!

If you expect to get into a hybrid, drive the wheels off of it. then go and try to compare them over gas savings you will be let down. If you adapt your driving to gas savings in any car the mpg gets better. You do it in a hybrid and mpg can go thru the roof.

Im planning on my next new car to be a CR-Z. If they put a 5 or 6 MT in it I will get one of the second year production units. I didn't get a HCHII due to the damn CVT. I want a MT in a small car period.

The R-18 is one hell of a mpg getting engine. The only thing missing is lean burn. If it had been lean burn. It would be on the heels of HCHII mpg. But like anything. Folks would have to use the feature. And lets face it many don't understand or use the R-18's 1.5L function. Just look at the awful mpg folks are getting in there R-18's.

Doesn't matter what is put out somebody will all ways figure out how to to get bad energy use out of it.

I hope next week I get to drive a UK spec diesel Civic. Ive heard they will get stupid high mpg in the hands of a mpg driver.

[whtdvl]

Originally Posted by wing_gundam

I don't remember having a heated pool/house option when I bought my civic?

If you want to talk about solar powered houses please start a thread under the water cooler. This thread is about the true cost of a hybrid CAR

my bad...

[GoHuskies]

And back to hybrids there still are tax credits depending on the model. Plus even after they phase out companies like Toyota have lowered the prices. the Prius starts at under 21,000 now and the civic will probably go down as well once the tax credit is used up.

The prius as a hatchback is now a pretty superior deal to a comparable Matrix.

[wing_gundam]

Originally Posted by GoHuskies

And back to hybrids there still are tax credits depending on the model. Plus even after they phase out companies like Toyota have lowered the prices. the Prius starts at under 21,000 now and the civic will probably go down as well once the tax credit is used up.

The prius as a hatchback is now a pretty superior deal to a comparable Matrix.

Unfortunately not in Canada - here you're looking at $35-40K BEFORE tax.


I know, its really sad. I call it one of the worst offenders in the US/Can prices. I could techically sell my 2 yr old car here for $20K (CAD) and buy a band new prius for about the same in the States.

[whtdvl]

^WOW thats quite the mark up

[wing_gundam]

yeah for that price difference where 1 usd = 0.98 cad or so that would make a 21,000 USD car 20,800 cad not 35,000

[3.2TL]

In my opinion, hybrids will be viewed in the long run as a bad technology, along with ethanol. Both in the production and disposal are worse for the environment that a standard gas engine. Diesel needs to be the way of the future.

[fox]

i do like diesel, especially bio-diesel but the problem with current diesel engines is the amount of sulfer that is dumped into the atmosphere. if we can get a cleaner burning diesel i'd be all over it.

[whtdvl]

^another tough thing to get over with diesel is that it costs roughly $0.30/gal more than premium...and for those of us that use 87oct it would be more like $0.50/gal more..

that difference in price for fuel plus the additional cost for a diesel engine option would take years to recoup the cost of it all..it would seem to be a wash between that and a gas motor..


with that being said...i too would really like to see a diesel option in compact vehicles like the civic...right now on another forum there are a couple guys that are driving a european civic hatch with a diesel and are get 70+mpg...which is awesome..not to mention the increase tq over a gas engine..

sorry for thread jacking