Hybrids Not So Green?

[CameronJr9]

Misperceptions of a Green Market

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

Several recent studies focusing on the overall energy expenditures including lifetime production and consumption costs expose another perspective on the environmental costs of the Prius and similar hybrid automobiles. For several years, Coastal Northwest Marketing Research (CNW) has compiled a thorough analysis of overall “total cost of energy to society” involved in the lifetime of automobiles (including production expenditures) referred to as the ‘Dust to Dust’ Automotive Energy Report. CNW claims the report was created as a consumer resource, and they received no monetary support from any industry or outside source.

The findings from the report claim that extra production and shipping energy expenditures for the hybrids actually raise their overall environmental impact beyond most conventional vehicles. CNW states, “A Honda Civic has a dust-to-dust energy cost of $2.42/mile, compared to the Honda Civic Hybrid which has a dust-to-dust energy cost of $3.238/mile. This means that although the hybrid version has better fuel efficiency, over the entire life of the car, the Honda Civic will be using less energy than the Honda Civic Hybrid.” An automotive energy use survey composed by Environment Canada also cites, “as much as 20% of all the energy consumed throughout the life of a vehicle goes into its manufacture.”

Source: http://www.gnn.tv/articles/3200/The_Green_Shift

[wing_gundam]

It's an interesting story that I've heard from time to time. IMO the real costs comes from limited production. The cost savings are derived because there are millions more per year created of say a regular civic...therefore kw hours can be reduced based on the overhead allocation of the cost accounting system in the plant.... (that's assuming that the research company is using accurate information).


Plus the author's writing style is very Michael Moore - ie one sided and terrible. For example, citing Environment Canada's claim that 20% of the cost goes into production may sound like it supports his argument. But to me, it sounds like it supports my statement above more. He's using unrelated evidence to prove a point and hoping the reader will make a leap of faith because the information sounds interesting. The desire to draw credible sounding affirmations (but are neutral in reality) shows his argument is weak. Plus he's citing a source from 1990....


Plus statements like


"Producers of hybrid automobiles such as Toyota and Honda are obviously not primarily interested in protecting the environment. They seek to market products which conform to the green consumer trend"

"Many of the scientists plotting and contriving far-fetched technological solutions "

"Hoffman, unlike most of the world leaders,"

"Humankind is faced with a choice: join the environmental movement or the extinction."




Show that he's a one sided critic.. He makes no concessions, nor does he try in anyway to prove his data using anything more than neutral comments from the past. In no way do I find his information credible. He's just a critic trying to make a buck, IMO

[Janizary]

Infidel defilers. You will all drown in lakes of blood.

(Guess the quote?)

[2gumby]

CNW's "study" is TOTAL bunk.
They consider the lifetime usefulness of the Prius at 100K or so, but the Hummer's at 350K (or some-such).
There are so many lies in the article it's laughable.
This was NOT done scientifically, but slanderously. There are many people that believe this "study" was paid for by big oil or big Iron, to de-bunk hybrids.
Everyone should stop quoting this trash. It contains ZERO legitimacy.

[Firestrife]

Hybrids environmental wise are very good but economically they are initial price savers. Now i dont know about the Civic Hybrid but i remember that the Toyota Prius had a warranty to last the life of the first battery change after that the cost was if i remember correctly about $1000 more or less. and averaging that into the price of the gas saved would be put into purchase of a new battery.

[spinner]

Here's a new Slate article, as a further counterpoint to the CNW study:

Is it possible that a Hummer's better for the environment than a Prius is? - By Brendan I. Koerner - Slate Magazine

[jasonandre]

I thought the entire point of any hybrid was to reduce the dependence on oil, since it's a non-renewable resource. Or maybe I'm just being to narrow-minded.

It's going to take forever before hydrogen becomes efficient enough to meet dust-to-dust energy "standards", but you don't hear any companies giving up on that either.

[gilbert46]

when your batteries die, how do you think they are disposed of?

I believe it, takes less energy to produce and operate a hummer then a hybrid over the course of their lives when you factor in 3-4 batteries and thier production/disposal

[GoHuskies]

The longest operating Honda Civic hybrid according to owners link has over 600,000 miles and is only on his third battery.

As for disposal the new batteries are designed to be recycled and material reused. Disposal is done through dealers. They shouldn't be going to dumps.

The Hummer vs Prius argument is a folly. Seriously do you think just a few batteries will use more materials to produce than the huge land barge Hummer? And how do you suppose a Hummer will hold up to long term use? My battery has a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty. Figure 150,000 or more miles. I question if a Hummer can last half that long on all major original components. Added to that I save money and materials with not need for an alternator, timing belt, and a few other components.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by GoHuskies

The longest operating Honda Civic hybrid according to owners link has over 600,000 miles and is only on his third battery.

As for disposal the new batteries are designed to be recycled and material reused. Disposal is done through dealers. They shouldn't be going to dumps.

The Hummer vs Prius argument is a folly. Seriously do you think just a few batteries will use more materials to produce than the huge land barge Hummer? And how do you suppose a Hummer will hold up to long term use? My battery has a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty. Figure 150,000 or more miles. I question if a Hummer can last half that long on all major original components. Added to that I save money and materials with not need for an alternator, timing belt, and a few other components.

Exactly.

[07Ex]

Very interesting article. Just stumbled upon it now.

[CameronJr9]

I forgot all about this article. Seems my research skills sucked back in the day. This article has been shown to be not-so-true. Thread closed for now. Silly Cameron.