can't decide Hybrid or LX sedan??

[stevenvillatoro]

I have more fun getting the best performance out of a slow car... it's more engaging to drive than a point-and-shoot pocket rocket. Anybody can press a gas pedal... where's the challenge in that?

Oddly, I like hybrids more for the entertaining instant-feedback arcade-style MPG game than for any real fuel economy savings. Weird, huh?

[GoHuskies]

Wait... so people still buy into the whole Hummer is greener than a Prius crap?

[KJSatz]

You can get the instant feedback on any vehicle....

[spinner]

No, there is nothing being added by the Si trolls. Look here

[ali_lapointe]

> Also I just like the idea of not contributing to the global warming

This is the real reason to get a hybrid. The various tradeoffs don't make this decision a non-brainer, and previous posts have brought up excellent points to consider. You mentioned that you're planning to keep the car for 5 years, so you'll probably have recouped the price difference by then with the better fuel economy.

That would be great, assuming nothing blows up. IMO the misfortune factor is higher with the HCH than the LX. I don't know by exactly what amount, but inarguably the HCH is a lot more complex than the LX. If you have a .38 revolver, it's going to shoot bullets all the time. Whereas if you had a Glock automatic, it'll probably shoot just as well -- but the odds of a malfunction are greater, because it's not as mechanically simple as the .38.

So you can take the LX to any decent garage for service and repair; that might not be the case with the HCH. Also, Honda's warranty fully covers the battery for only 3 years, and then it goes to a diminishing tiered system for the rest of the coverage period (i.e. in year 4, they only cover 50% of the cost of purchase of a new battery -- all the way down to 10% in year 8). You're in NY, so the warranty is drawn out to 10 years, but you get the idea.

But the HCH is that much cooler. Mac vs. PC. Blah blah blah. Sorry for the long post. Get the LX if you're worried about overall cost. Get the HCH if you feel that it's the environmentally responsible thing to do.

BTW you can claim the sales tax from the purchase of a new car in 2009 as a deduction. No big whoop but it's still a few hundred bucks.
Special Tax Break Available for New Car Purchases This Year

[splew]

Originally Posted by GoHuskies

Wait... so people still buy into the whole Hummer is greener than a Prius crap?

Originally Posted by spinner

No, there is nothing being added by the Si trolls. Look here

Originally Posted by ali_lapointe

> Also I just like the idea of not contributing to the global warming

This is the real reason to get a hybrid. The various tradeoffs don't make this decision a non-brainer, and previous posts have brought up excellent points to consider. You mentioned that you're planning to keep the car for 5 years, so you'll probably have recouped the price difference by then with the better fuel economy.

That would be great, assuming nothing blows up. IMO the misfortune factor is higher with the HCH than the LX. I don't know by exactly what amount, but inarguably the HCH is a lot more complex than the LX. If you have a .38 revolver, it's going to shoot bullets all the time. Whereas if you had a Glock automatic, it'll probably shoot just as well -- but the odds of a malfunction are greater, because it's not as mechanically simple as the .38.

So you can take the LX to any decent garage for service and repair; that might not be the case with the HCH. Also, Honda's warranty fully covers the battery for only 3 years, and then it goes to a diminishing tiered system for the rest of the coverage period (i.e. in year 4, they only cover 50% of the cost of purchase of a new battery -- all the way down to 10% in year 8). You're in NY, so the warranty is drawn out to 10 years, but you get the idea.

But the HCH is that much cooler. Mac vs. PC. Blah blah blah. Sorry for the long post. Get the LX if you're worried about overall cost. Get the HCH if you feel that it's the environmentally responsible thing to do.

BTW you can claim the sales tax from the purchase of a new car in 2009 as a deduction. No big whoop but it's still a few hundred bucks.
Special Tax Break Available for New Car Purchases This Year

Lol guys, It was just a joke. It was a thing on southpark where they made fun of hybrid owners saying that they create an even worse greenhouse gas called smug. This making fun of the fact that many hybrid owners are smug and full of themselves because they think they are "saving the planet".

Originally Posted by George Carlin's "The Planet Is Fine"

We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these ******* people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the ******* planet?

I'm getting tired of that ****. Tired of that ****. I'm tired of ******* Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world save for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a **** about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are ******. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!

We're going away. Pack your ****, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.

You wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.

The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...asshole.

So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.

Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while."

[ali_lapointe]

> Lol guys, It was just a joke

No offense taken. My point was that there's a lot of people who think hybrids don't make financial sense quite yet, and that I agree with them to some degree. But IMO the environmental benefit offset the deficits. (Yes, I realize the "environmental benefits" might be miniscule in the grand scheme of things, but hey, we all do our part)

Also to your point, I always thought that one reason that Prius sales outperform the HCH was because some people really like to advertise the fact that they're driving a hybrid. The little badge on the back of the HCH just isn't loud enough ...

[splew]

Originally Posted by ali_lapointe

> Lol guys, It was just a joke

No offense taken. My point was that there's a lot of people who think hybrids don't make financial sense quite yet, and that I agree with them to some degree. But IMO the environmental benefit offset the deficits. (Yes, I realize the "environmental benefits" might be miniscule in the grand scheme of things, but hey, we all do our part)

Also to your point, I always thought that one reason that Prius sales outperform the HCH was because some people really like to advertise the fact that they're driving a hybrid. The little badge on the back of the HCH just isn't loud enough ...

I personally don't think current hybrids make a lot of sense, at least not for my commute. This might matter much to older people, but I think hybrids make you give up more fun and money than you get back in MPGs.

It costs about $6000 more than my LX 5MT coupe, and I'm guessing my mileage would only improve by 5-10 mpg (I get 33-38), but the car would be much slower (around 4 seconds slower 0-60), handle worse (195/65R-15 low rolling resistance tires vs. my aftermarket 215/45R-17 performance tires) and look worse (pie pan wheels and boring colors IMO). Too me it's not worth it.

I do however think that plug in hybrids (like the chevy volt) are great ideas.

[spinner]

Originally Posted by ali_lapointe

That would be great, assuming nothing blows up. IMO the misfortune factor is higher with the HCH than the LX.

You could be perfectly right on this. On the other hand, there is no better car company that I'd be willing to take a chance with than Honda. And they've been deploying this technology, including the CVT, for 10 years. Reliability is one of many factors to choosing a vehicle, but I think it gets taken out of proportion much too often.

Related to things that could go wrong, both the Civic Hybrid and Civic Si benefit from having EPS (electric-assisted power steering) because there is one less fluid and pump to worry about.

[immasexyboy]

if u get a LX might as well get a hybrid.