is the R18 a waste of time

[jdrumstik]

I am new to the forums. So I am looking at buying a new car, I've looked at everything between the Corolla, Focus, Sentra, Rabbit, Mazda3, Impreza. The point is I've done a lot of looking.

Well I think that I really like the civic but I was wondering, is the R18 a waste of time? I am looking for an affordable 4 door car under 15K. I was just wondering what kind of HP increases are you guys getting with your basic bolt ons. Is it worth it, or is it just a much better idea to make a stretch to the Si.

I would really like a car that had about 180HP. So that's really what I am looking for, is this attainable with basic bolt ons? Chip/ECU reflash, Downpipe, Catback, CAI, and maybe some other little mods?

Also I have been reading on the forums for a while so I know what people's common complaints are but if someone feels like filling me in a little more that would be great

[Zeuceone]

get the si sedan.

[BATANG CITY JAIL]

yes....

[Yodums]

If you can afford the Si, then I would strongly recommend it. Just keep in mind that aside from price differences, you also have to take into account differences in gas prices and insurance. Comparing the Si to the R18 is like comparing apples to oranges. One is geared towards a sportier ride with a stiffer suspension, beefier engine, etc. The other one is geared towards fuel economy and affordibility.

[jdrumstik]

Well that's just it, the si is going to cost about $5,000 more in sticker price, but probably twice in insurance.

I was wondering , if you dropped $500 for a chip, $500 for exhaust and Intake, and $500 for suspension what kind of Horsepower would you be at? Anywhere near the Si? Could you justify 5HP for intake, 10HP for exhaust (Say you include a downpipe), and 10 more for a chip? 165HP, or could it go higher? And then I understand that you could apply those same numbers on top of an Si. But what about future cams? Is it possible to enable V-TECH at higher RPMS with a new cam? I remember reading an article in hotrod claiming like 10 or 15 HP for an old 93 accord with a simple cam swap.

Gas millage isn't really a concern to me, and I am not really interested in after market turbos, too expensive and I'm not comfortable doing that to a new daily driver.

[Big-Mike]

I'd say get the SI too. That's what I'm doing.

Gas is like an extra $3.9 per fill up from empty.

Mileage:
SI 22/32
Non SI 30/38 (manual)

Get like an extra 105mi per tank on non SI.

With the money you'd spend though to get that extra 40hp (still 17 less then SI) I'm sure it would've been better to just buy the SI.

[ABM JDM]

I was in your position 3 months ago, and I did a lot of research myself. First off, I don't think you're going to get any sedans you listed for under 15k with anything over bare minimum features, except perhaps the Focus.

Second, no, R18 bolt-on mods will not net you anything close to 180hp; and there's no Hondata reflash for R18s. The AJP turbo kit should be out pretty soon, and could boost it past 200hp, but if you really want that much hp, go w/ Si sedan as mentioned previously, it'll end up costing the same.

So basically it comes down to good ole money, vs. what you are mainly looking for. You want to save money (mpg and cheaper gas) and have reliable transportation? Go R18. It's the best value out there. Otherwise, you'll have to pony up.

[modoko]

Originally Posted by jdrumstik

Well that's just it, the si is going to cost about $5,000 more in sticker price, but probably twice in insurance.

I was wondering , if you dropped $500 for a chip, $500 for exhaust and Intake, and $500 for suspension what kind of Horsepower would you be at? Anywhere near the Si? Could you justify 5HP for intake, 10HP for exhaust (Say you include a downpipe), and 10 more for a chip? 165HP, or could it go higher? And then I understand that you could apply those same numbers on top of an Si. But what about future cams? Is it possible to enable V-TECH at higher RPMS with a new cam? I remember reading an article in hotrod claiming like 10 or 15 HP for an old 93 accord with a simple cam swap.

Gas millage isn't really a concern to me, and I am not really interested in after market turbos, too expensive and I'm not comfortable doing that to a new daily driver.

I would say 155hp max for basic bolt-ons: I/H/E/ and 170hp with pulley, chip and cat.

[ABM JDM]

^^^ I love my R18 as much as the next person, but I think that is rather generous... Also, there is no H for R18s, and E = cat, yes? And I read that chips do nada for us. I was thinking realistically more like 145-147hp w/ CAI + cat, and maybe up to 155hp or so IF NST pulleys work as advertised.

[Yodums]

Originally Posted by jdrumstik

Well that's just it, the si is going to cost about $5,000 more in sticker price, but probably twice in insurance.

I was wondering , if you dropped $500 for a chip, $500 for exhaust and Intake, and $500 for suspension what kind of Horsepower would you be at? Anywhere near the Si? Could you justify 5HP for intake, 10HP for exhaust (Say you include a downpipe), and 10 more for a chip? 165HP, or could it go higher? And then I understand that you could apply those same numbers on top of an Si. But what about future cams? Is it possible to enable V-TECH at higher RPMS with a new cam? I remember reading an article in hotrod claiming like 10 or 15 HP for an old 93 accord with a simple cam swap.

Sorry, it's just not going to happen. Either you get the R18 and live with the fact that you will never get the gains a K20Z3 would or you fork out the extra money for the Si. You've got to pay to play.

[ken42o]

i bought the ex coz of the fact u can put 87 rather then the 93 in the si. the gas mileage is a whole lot better then the si as well. the si isnt even that much faster. the brake pads and the tires last alot longer on the ex as well. all in all the ex is a more practical decision but the si will have more bragging rights. plus i do get pissed off everytime someone checks out my car and asks if "its a si right?" lol

[dentrecords]

Why buy an R18 and spend all this time and money modding it to be simply equal to a factory warrantied Si?

Sounds to me like you might already know the answer to your question.

[SiLvErLIgHT06]

Insurance is pretty much the same for both. I'm paying 760 for my r18, every six months. 810 was the quote for the SI.

[Jay Kincannon]

If you do all the work to make R18 give you max hp if will most likely void your new car warranty. Buy a SI Coupe and you will have the best performance car for the money

[modoko]

If you are planning to the N/A road, spending money to mod a R18 is useless, if you are planing to get the turbo, built the motor right and you should probably able to pull out 300whp+.

[sd5599]

Originally Posted by ABM JDM

^^^ I love my R18 as much as the next person, but I think that is rather generous... Also, there is no H for R18s, and E = cat, yes? And I read that chips do nada for us. I was thinking realistically more like 145-147hp w/ CAI + cat, and maybe up to 155hp or so IF NST pulleys work as advertised.

Who advertised an 8-10 hp gains from NST pulleys? That seems a bit unrealistic.

[BlueEX07]

Yeah that doesn't sound quite right. I don't think that right now the R18 is a viable option as a performance motor. I am sure as time passes there will be options but for now I would only advise buying the SI for performance.

[jdrumstik]

Wow this is an awesome forums. So many responses.

Well, I think I understand what must be done. It seems like the gains that can be made with basic bolt ons are quite low on the R18.

I do have one question. The Si asks for 93, but say if you were on a 1000 mile road trip, can you put in 87? I've heard of BMWs and other cars that adjust the timing so that this can be done, however you get a HP decrease.

I think I might try to make my beater (an 89 Oldsmobile that was given to me) last as long as possible (Which may not be long!), maybe by then I can pick up a barely used Si Sedan with a few thousand shaved off the price and no dealer hassle


One last question. How is Honda Warranty service? I've never had a car with a warranty before, my family had a Kia mini van and they wouldn't ever service that car unless your really hassled them, and my Dad has a BMW and they treat him like royalty whenever he gets his car serviced (which is every other week, its a BMW). Can I get the car serviced at any Honda Dealer? Do they usually treat you pretty well?

[dentrecords]

Si requires 91, not 93. If you check out the forum, do a few searches, you'll see that all gas related questions have been beaten to death. You'll be fine, but saving that $1-2 for a possible engine knock probably isn't worth it.

Also... warranty questions are probably covered too. Check it out! See my signature for more details

[Yodums]

Originally Posted by jdrumstik

Wow this is an awesome forums. So many responses.

Well, I think I understand what must be done. It seems like the gains that can be made with basic bolt ons are quite low on the R18.

I do have one question. The Si asks for 91, but say if you were on a 1000 mile road trip, can you put in 87? I've heard of BMWs and other cars that adjust the timing so that this can be done, however you get a HP decrease.

I think I might try to make my beater (an 89 Oldsmobile that was given to me) last as long as possible (Which may not be long!), maybe by then I can pick up a barely used Si Sedan with a few thousand shaved off the price and no dealer hassle


One last question. How is Honda Warranty service? I've never had a car with a warranty before, my family had a Kia mini van and they wouldn't ever service that car unless your really hassled them, and my Dad has a BMW and they treat him like royalty whenever he gets his car serviced (which is every other week, its a BMW). Can I get the car serviced at any Honda Dealer? Do they usually treat you pretty well?

Yes, the ECU will adjust for lower gas grade. But again, I don't think you should be running 87 octane in there. The engine was designed and optimized to operate on 91 octane, not 87. Gas prices should be at the bottom of your list for financial concerns.

Don't put yourself in a financial burden by purchasing something that will put you through hell. I was in the same boat, I could've made the reach to the Si, but I would literally have to keep a very tight eye on my funds, keep any social life activities with friends to a bare minimum, budget to pay my tuition, etc. I opted for the R18 because I knew that was the right choice. Of course, I do have the occasional thoughts of regrets.