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LSD/stability control (VSA)/traction control

19K views 74 replies 16 participants last post by  shAd0w 
#1 ·
I have a 2010 civic ex, and recently discovered that if i had purchased an EX-L, i would have stability control (VSA), and traction control (kinda pissed about that). I want LSD, and I plan to swap my motor and tranny later on down the road. My question is, even though the tranny swap i want to do would give me LSD, i also want my civic to have stability control (VSA), and traction control. How would i do this (if possible at all)?
 
#2 · (Edited)
VSA really isn't all that great. I had wished that my Si came without it (I had an 07, the 06's didn't have it). I'd consider it a blessing that you aren't burdened with an annoying electonic nanny that hurts performance.

Also, what kind of transmission are you planning on swapping in? An Si transmission cannot be made to work with an R18 motor. If you plan to swap the transmission, it must be done at the same time as the motor swap and vice versa.

Also, if you had a plan for a K20 swap, save your mone and grief and just sell your car and buy an Si. There was an R18 owner on here that successfully K swapped his R18, and it cost him over $15k by the time it was over, and that is not including the price of the R18.

I'm sure you could get an LSD into your R18 trans for under $1000 installed, that might be a good place to start. Though I don't know what good it would do as the R18 doesn't really make enough power to need an LSD.





edit: Wait a second. You do have stability control. The NHTSB mandated that all cars have stability control as of 2007, so if you have a 2010, you have it.
 
#5 · (Edited)
VSA really isn't all that great. I had wished that my Si came without it (I had an 07, the 06's didn't have it)*turn it off*. I'd consider it a blessing that you aren't burdened with an annoying electonic nanny that hurts performance.*turn it off*

Also, what kind of transmission are you planning on swapping in? An Si transmission cannot be made to work with an R18 motor. If you plan to swap the transmission, it must be done at the same time as the motor swap and vice versa.

Also, if you had a plan for a K20 swap, save your mone and grief and just sell your car and buy an Si. There was an R18 owner on here that successfully K swapped his R18, and it cost him over $15k by the time it was over, and that is not including the price of the R18.

I'm sure you could get an LSD into your R18 trans for under $1000 installed, that might be a good place to start. Though I don't know what good it would do as the R18 doesn't really make enough power to need an LSD.





edit: Wait a second. You do have stability control. The NHTSB mandated that all cars have stability control as of 2007, so if you have a 2010, you have it.
god, i disagree with that statement %150...:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

are you ******* joking me? why is it such a big deal that it has VSA? did your car not have a button to turn it off?

because without VSA i would probably sell my car.

on ice, i can drive as fast as i want, pass trucks, crank on my wheel as hard as i want, and my car continues to go in a straight line with no problem.

i can go up hills, down hills, turns anything with ice and my car drives like a BOSS.


now lets talk about rain, just yesterday i was in 4th gear, hit 8psi and was going about 55mph, and it was dumping rain outiside(unsafe? sure but **** it) my tires are bald as ****, and i hit nice rut of water and my car went sideways, i corrected the steering instantly, but VSA kicked in and i guarantee it helped me, which isnt the first time ive been in a situation like that.
there is no reason to ***** about it when you can just click that button and turn it off... and kazzam no more VSA... unless you have a 2011... then you have to hold the button... oh no.... ill never buy a car without traction control.. unless its just a 1k beater

end rant/
 
#3 ·
oh word (about the stability control). and yea i was gonna do a k20a/k24a2 build with a ctr fd2 tranny. (but idk cuz i really like the s2k ap2 gearing). and i have to wait 65000 more miles for my warranty to run out anyway, so by the time that happens ill have plenty of money and knowledge (honestly i couldnt do it now). but damn $15k? i mean i really love my car but i guess i just want that k build (its my dream build). Thanks for the insight!
 
#6 ·
Yes, I turn it off. And if I forget to turn it off before a run, it kills my run. I'm not a fan of the government requiring electronic nannies on cars. Mark my words, soon enough you won't be able to turn the traction control off on new cars. This alone IS GOING TO KILL GRASSROOTS MOTORSPORTS. And with more and more people possessing ignorance on this subject as profound as yours, the problem will only get worse, and the roads will only be more dangerous.

Furthermore, you are a sorry excuse for a driver if you:

a) are actually driving like that in those conditions
b) expect me to believe that VSA is capable of anything you've just claimed
c) are relying on electronic nannies to bail you out because you lack proper driving skills

I hope that your driving priviledges are revoked before you kill an innocent person.
 
#8 ·
okay, you forgot to turn it off, whos fault for your ****** up times is that? the VSA? hahaha no your fault, dont need to hate on it because you cant use a button.

and i agree with you, if they do not put an off switch, that will be some bull**** and ruin a lot of things, my work has a toyota yaris, and its annoying trying to get it to do fun things in the snow when traction control is in the way, but that is ONLY in the event of not being able to control if it is on or off.

and

a) rain does not change the way anyone drives in oregon.
b)i didnt say that it did all the work, if i didnt correct the steering i probably would have kept sliding.it only helped.
c)i use it to my advantage, knowing i may need it... we arent talking on the track here.... it shouldnt be used on the track so dont bring the track into this subject.


how about when i was driving the speed limit, and my car hydroplaned and for about 3 seconds vsa was engaged keeping my car going in a straight line ?


your right, **** VSA im going to keep it off.....:deadhorse:
 
#15 · (Edited)
ok guys nice ranting BUT (since buying an Si is out of the question) my question remains unanswered. I appreciate the info and opinions about the VSA and tc. I know u can put LSD on a car without it, but what about VSA? how does VSA work? is it all in the tranny? Whether i choose to do it or not...idk, if its not worth it i probably wont. ---------------so what i am asking is what controls VSA/tc then? is it all in the tranny or all in the ECU? or is it a combo of both?
 
#18 ·
You know, this isn't just "buy a motor and trans and slap it in"

That works with a b-series, and a b-series would slap right into your car, but a K20 is gonna cost you.

You need:

motor/trans $6k
axles/hubs/control arms/brakes $2k
exhaust $1500
ECU $500
engine mounts $1000
accessories $1000
cooling system $500

Total: $12,500

And I'm being genrous with those very low prices, and I'm also probably leaving quite a bit out.

Also, isn't your time worth something? And keep in mind that you will spend a good bit of time working out bugs and kinks, and possibly end up with a car that never runs or drives right.


There is NO way that a K swapped R18 will cost less than an Si, period.

It just seems stupid spend $20,000+ to have an 'Si swapped R18' when you can just buy an Si for $10,000.
 
#19 ·
Having traction control an VSA is very importent on a daily drivin car. Its like have a backup that could potentionally save you from a accident. Take a look at some utube vids of stability control working on the highway, its amazing.
But its not a deal breaker, honda decided to cheap out and not put it into all of their cars standard, unlike hyundai, and most domestic cars.
I wouldnt worry about it that much, the civic is a fairly easy to drive car that wont put you into danger unless you drive it like a maniac. Just take it easy when conditions arent great.
 
#20 ·
to be honest, i dont see how it would be easier to just "slap a b series in"to my car, when my chassis is built to handle a k from the factory. it seems like a b would require more fabrication.....and anyway you cant just "slap a motor and trans" into anything haha its not that simple. Yea, you gotta get the motor, trans, axles, motor mounts, etc. there is A LOT to it (and you dont need brakes...? not sure y u said that..yes ECU and yes cooling system, and i already have 95% of the exhaust for a k (bought the one for the k and had to fab it up haha) so thats already done, and exhaust is NOT 1500, more like 650). And honestly, if you spend 15k by putting a k in yourself, you doing SOMETHING wrong. Oh, and if you read that article (reading your comment inspired me to search until i found it) he said he sent it somewhere to have it put in, AND he posted up a pic of the bill they sent him. so no, he did not do it himself, which is why he payed $15k.... and besides i am planning on a k20a/k24a2 build (not k20z3) (which WILL cost a good bit more haha)...anyway, im guessing nobody knows the answer to my question? how does VSA/tc work? where is it located?
 
#25 ·
well to be honest, it would help, but i dont really see a need for LSD for my r18 cuz it doesnt have enough power to need it imo....i was talking about if/when i do a k-swap+tranny. Yea i get LSD is in the tranny b/c i watched my bro put LSD in his tranny when he was building his B-series ek..What controls/operates VSA and TC? is it the cars ECU?
 
#34 · (Edited)
The mandate for all cars to have stability control didn't take effect until the 2012 model year, so if his car is a 2010, it was made well before the mandate.

Again, I'm pretty certain that the only 8th gen Civics that came with VSA were EX-L and Si trims. I remember this because Consumer Reports repeatedly criticized the 8th gen Civics for only having limited stability control availability.

Either way, to my knowledge, Honda has never sold a car here with non-defeatable VSA, so it has VSA, it has a button.
 
#36 ·
No I'm not. Electronic stability control was not mandated until model year 2012.

NHTSA to make ESC standard on all cars

On a side note, all cars with stability control also have traction control, so they're basically one in the same now.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Actually Subaru VDC, which was introduced back in 2001 has both traction and stability control.

Subaru glossary- terms and definitions for everyday Subaru use (look at the VTD and VDC sections)

It makes no sense for a car to have stability control and not also have traction control. A stability control system already has all of the mechanical and electronic components required to provide traction control, as stability control is basically an evolution of traction control.
 
#39 ·
Traction control = throttle on control (prevents wheels from spinning when the driver gives the car too much throttle)

Stability control = braking and turning control (works to recover the car when it is in a skid or yaw via the brakes)





Subaru's older than 2008 DO NOT HAVE TRACTION CONTROL
 
#41 · (Edited)
Traction control = throttle on control (prevents wheels from spinning when the driver gives the car too much throttle)

Stability control = braking and turning control (works to recover the car when it is in a skid or yaw via the brakes)
Yes thanks, I know what they do. Do you understand how these systems work mechanically? If you did you would see why having stability control without also having traction control makes no sense. Traction control doesn't work by just reducing engine output. It also applies braking force to the drive wheels.

Subaru's older than 2008 DO NOT HAVE TRACTION CONTROL
I showed you a source that says they did. Show me a source that says they didn't.... :waiting:

And let me ask you, do you really think that an AWD car needs traction control?
Yes.
 
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