T1R Air Conduct Box

[Zeuceone]

Originally Posted by fg2!kid

looks like a K&N filter

thats what i was thinking.

[drfters13]

Originally Posted by saiaba

meh 6 pages of the same questions.

Looks hawt.. still not down with paying 350+ for 9hp.

9 hp would be a lot. i'll gladly pay that price for better throttle response, and a better working intake system then injens. so you also wouldn't by an exhaust which gives you like 2 hp either right?

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by saiaba

meh 6 pages of the same questions.

Looks hawt.. still not down with paying 350+ for 9hp.

I think if you look at bang for the buck, this is pretty realistic. I paid over $600 for a Vibrant race header that probably gave me 7 hp. I paid $490 for a Vibrant cat-back that gave me maybe 5 hp at best. Other intakes probably give 2-3 hp, so the price is not bad considering the gains. The only other mod that could give greater hp would be a Hondata reflash.

For those of us going the N/A route, horsepower gains are going to be incremental. The only way to make a noticeable gain is to boost your car with either a turbo, S/C or nitrous.

Honda did such a great job extracting power from the K20z3 motor, it is going to be difficult to make something substantial above that.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

I think if you look at bang for the buck, this is pretty realistic. I paid over $600 for a Vibrant race header that probably gave me 7 hp. I paid $490 for a Vibrant cat-back that gave me maybe 5 hp at best. Other intakes probably give 2-3 hp, so the price is not bad considering the gains. The only other mod that could give greater hp would be a Hondata reflash.

For those of us going the N/A route, horsepower gains are going to be incremental. The only way to make a noticeable gain is to boost your car with either a turbo, S/C or nitrous.

Honda did such a great job extracting power from the K20z3 motor, it is going to be difficult to make something substantial above that.

Or $210 for an injen cai that will give you more than the other intakes.

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Honda did such a great job extracting power from the K20z3 motor, it is going to be difficult to make something substantial above that.

i have to agree but disagree at the same time b/c i believe Honda detuned these motors a lot... when a tunable ecu is released i will tune it w/o any mods to show how detuned they were from the factory...

the difficulty in extracting power would come from the added MAF sensor on these cars... it keeps the car running on/close to the factory base map...

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

i have to agree but disagree at the same time b/c i believe Honda detuned these motors a lot... when a tunable ecu is released i will tune it w/o any mods to show how detuned they were from the factory...

the difficulty in extracting power would come from the added MAF sensor on these cars... it keeps the car running on/close to the factory base map...

Exactly. The f20 would be more difficult. The k's do great.

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Exactly. The f20 would be more difficult. The k's do great.

yeah the f20c is really stretched from the factory when it comes to power... Honda really took the most out of those motors... but the k's they left tons of room to play...

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Or 210 for an injen cai that will give you more than the other intakes.

I don't know. Is Injen saying that they are getting 210 hp with one of their intakes? If so, then the T1R should make even more because of the temperature differential and the potential for making it a true ram air system.

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

i have to agree but disagree at the same time b/c i believe Honda detuned these motors a lot... when a tunable ecu is released i will tune it w/o any mods to show how detuned they were from the factory...

the difficulty in extracting power would come from the added MAF sensor on these cars... it keeps the car running on/close to the factory base map...

I know what you are saying. I meant for our cars the way they sit right now, it is difficult extracting big time power with N/A mods. With the K-Pro or Hydra, we might begin to see some really stellar hp and torque numbers.

The key IMO is to use the factory MAF housing, possibly modified like the one I am getting, and use it with tuneable ECU. This would give driveablility and good throttle response while increasing power.

[redpepSi]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Is Injen saying that they are getting 210 hp with one of their intakes?

i think he was talking $$, not HP.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

I don't know. Is Injen saying that they are getting 210 hp with one of their intakes? If so, then the T1R should make even more because of the temperature differential and the potential for making it a true ram air system.



I know what you are saying. I meant for our cars the way they sit right now, it is difficult extracting big time power with N/A mods. With the K-Pro or Hydra, we might begin to see some really stellar hp and torque numbers.

The key IMO is to use the factory MAF housing, possibly modified like the one I am getting, and use it with tuneable ECU. This would give driveablility and good throttle response while increasing power.

Well, I have yet to see a dyno beat the injen cai. And for 210 bucks, it's not a bad choice. What are you talking about with the temp differential? Are we talking sri's or cai's? I'm talking about the injen cai. Where is the difference in temp gonna come into play.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by redpepSi

i think he was talking $$, not HP.

Exactly.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by redpepSi

i think he was talking $$, not HP.

No, he said 210 hp in his post. Maybe he meant $, but he said hp.

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Well, I have yet to see a dyno beat the injen cai. And for 210 bucks, it's not a bad choice. What are you talking about with the temp differential? Are we talking sri's or cai's? I'm talking about the injen cai. Where is the difference in temp gonna come into play.

Jeremy, the temp differential is just one reason that an enclosed airbox that is ducted to fresh air is superior to any SRI or CAI. All research going back to Chevrolet in the 1960's and continuing to today shows that for every 10 degree drop in temp inside the airbox, there is a corresponding 2 hp gain.

I have read many articles about enclosed airboxes on a 90 degree day showing a 40-60 temperature difference. This is why I am going with the CRV airbox for the cowl induction.

The other issue has to do with the greater air density of air that is rammed or pressurized. That along with the greater air velocity will make hp over any tube with an exposed air filter in a hot engine bay.

In a way, you could say that there may be a 1-2 hp drop for every 10 degrees hotter in the engine bay. Thus, you could end up with a zero net gain or worse, a decrease in hp on a really hot day. The key to performance is isolating parts from excessive heat. That is why people used TB spacers. You will notice at drag strips that intake manifolds are packed with dry ice or ice cubes to reduce the temperature and bring denser air into the motor which increases hp.

One more thing: you can't dyno a system with ram air. No weedblower or large fan will ever simulate the effects of air pressure and velocity on an intake system at speed. A dyno reading may show a SRI or CAI to be similar to the Gruppe M or T1R, but a road test will clearly differentiate the systems. Using a G-tech or MSD Dashhawk should show the differential.

Jeremy, read this about the effects of air temperature on performance:

Cowl induction for cold, ram air for the Si?

Cold Air Induction on a 1979 Z28 Camaro (Part 1) - SMOKEmUP.com

Home Page

http://www.psmdiesel.com/air_intake94.php

The Intake Cycle Part One

[redpepSi]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Or 210 for an injen cai that will give you more than the other intakes.

[Zeuceone]

Butt dyno ftl.

[PR_S14]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

One more thing: you can't dyno a system with ram air. No weedblower or large fan will ever simulate the effects of air pressure and velocity on an intake system at speed. A dyno reading may show a SRI or CAI to be similar to the Gruppe M or T1R, but a road test will clearly differentiate the systems.

Again with this ram air stuff. The group m is a ram air. The T1R is not. I understand that it CAN be, but you keep calling it what it isn't. Hell with a fog light removed and a tube connecting the intake, an Injen CAI can be a "ram air" intake. I'm in for hp results on this intake for what it is, a closed box cold air intake, nothing more.

Everyone that wants to make this a "ram air" should have to seek their own hp or intake temp results. It shouldn't have to be AJR's place to do that.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by PR_S14

Again with this ram air stuff. The group m is a ram air. The T1R is not. I understand that it CAN be, but you keep calling it what it isn't. Hell with a fog light removed and a tube connecting the intake, an Injen CAI can be a "ram air" intake. I'm in for hp results on this intake for what it is, a closed box cold air intake, nothing more.

Everyone that wants to make this a "ram air" should have to seek their own hp or intake temp results. It shouldn't have to be AJR's place to do that.

It is ram air if it is ducted from the fog light to the scoop. This is not rocket science. This is a high pressure area and is classic for cars with ram air. Look at some of the muscle cars from the 1960's such as the 1968 Hurst Olds and you will see what I mean.

As for the Injen being a ram air system if a tube is connected to it, no way. The air filter is exposed. It has to be sealed off for it to work as a true ram air.

As the T1R sits in the pic, I agree that it is not ram air. Joey mentioned that it would need to be connected to the foglight area to be so.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

No, he said 210 hp in his post. Maybe he meant $, but he said hp.



Jeremy, the temp differential is just one reason that an enclosed airbox that is ducted to fresh air is superior to any SRI or CAI. All research going back to Chevrolet in the 1960's and continuing to today shows that for every 10 degree drop in temp inside the airbox, there is a corresponding 2 hp gain.

I have read many articles about enclosed airboxes on a 90 degree day showing a 40-60 temperature difference. This is why I am going with the CRV airbox for the cowl induction.

The other issue has to do with the greater air density of air that is rammed or pressurized. That along with the greater air velocity will make hp over any tube with an exposed air filter in a hot engine bay.

In a way, you could say that there may be a 1-2 hp drop for every 10 degrees hotter in the engine bay. Thus, you could end up with a zero net gain or worse, a decrease in hp on a really hot day. The key to performance is isolating parts from excessive heat. That is why people used TB spacers. You will notice at drag strips that intake manifolds are packed with dry ice or ice cubes to reduce the temperature and bring denser air into the motor which increases hp.

One more thing: you can't dyno a system with ram air. No weedblower or large fan will ever simulate the effects of air pressure and velocity on an intake system at speed. A dyno reading may show a SRI or CAI to be similar to the Gruppe M or T1R, but a road test will clearly differentiate the systems. Using a G-tech or MSD Dashhawk should show the differential.

Jeremy, read this about the effects of air temperature on performance:

Cowl induction for cold, ram air for the Si?

Cold Air Induction on a 1979 Z28 Camaro (Part 1) - SMOKEmUP.com

Home Page

http://www.psmdiesel.com/air_intake94.php

The Intake Cycle Part One

I understand what you're saying, however I've not seen results showing that what you're talking about making more power. I've tried to find things to make more power than the injen and just couldn't do it, so if you can't beat em, join em.
Something else; all I would have to do is cut a hole where the foglights go on the coupe and I would have fresh air hitting the filter while moving forward. May not be ram air, but it will still be nice.

[Lev]

cant wait for this... i hope the price isn't too steep

;D