Gruppe-M Ram Air System Installed

[civicracer32]

OK, I'm coming in late on this one, and I'm not saying this doesn't work, and I do like the cold air aspect of it, but...remember kawasaki and the ZX series sportbikes with ram air (i.e. ZX-12). They did give the bike an additional 10 or so horsepower beginning at speeds of 130+. It was determined at speeds below 130mph or so that the ram air system did not pressurize the airbox to offer any boost below that speed. The size of the ram air inlets though do have part to play in what speed the Ram air becomes effective. The larger the inlet, the lower the speed necessary to make the system effective.

I'm afraid the dyno will be inconclusive due to the lack of wind from the fan being able to generate the kind of velocity that real road conditions would produce. But I'll say this, it looks bitchin. I'd buy it for $500, but couldn't justify $1200 on my budget.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by civicracer32

OK, I'm coming in late on this one, and I'm not saying this doesn't work, and I do like the cold air aspect of it, but...remember kawasaki and the ZX series sportbikes with ram air (i.e. ZX-12). They did give the bike an additional 10 or so horsepower beginning at speeds of 130+. It was determined at speeds below 130mph or so that the ram air system did not pressurize the airbox to offer any boost below that speed. The size of the ram air inlets though do have part to play in what speed the Ram air becomes effective. The larger the inlet, the lower the speed necessary to make the system effective.

I'm afraid the dyno will be inconclusive due to the lack of wind from the fan being able to generate the kind of velocity that real road conditions would produce. But I'll say this, it looks bitchin. I'd buy it for $500, but couldn't justify $1200 on my budget.

What is the size difference of the ram air inlets on the bikes compared to this one? What do you think that speed difference would be?

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by halfNhalf83

a dyno wont give a realistic hp calculation for this product.

Totally correct. As I previously said in an earlier post, it is virtually impossible to measure or quantify gains made by ram air. The reason being is that air needs to be flowing over the hood at a higher velocity and there needs to be a pressure increase at the base of the windshield.

The only way to simulate this would be a wind tunnel, especially the exotic moving windtunnels like they use in F1.

In the thread I created on Cowl Induction, there was an article that I copied about a Miata that used a homemade cowl induction setup. They noted that the only real way to test the cowl induction was to do acceleration tests before and after the mod.

They found that 0-60 times dropped .5 seconds, which is quite substantial. It would be like going from 0-60 in 6 seconds down to 5.5 seconds. They noted the increased passing power and midrange pull of the motor.

There are many pundits here about this setup. Ram air has been around for a long time. It was so impressive in F1 when they had the high mounted scoops above the roll bar, that they were banned. People might note that in F1 and ALMS racing, intake scoops are regulated in size, notably to decrease power.

The Gruppe M is a well thought out system. It is both a stylistic and engineering upgrade. While I still can't figure out the extra hole in the side of the airbox, I still think it is an impressive setup. The only thing that detracts from it is the price. I am choking everytime I think about paying over $1200 for something like this.

As many of you know, I desperately want something like this. Either I find a suitable airbox to which I can install a cone filter and then build a duct to the cowl area, or I grit my teeth and pay the money.

We must remember that a mod alone may give disappointing results. However, the sum total of all the mods has a multiplicative effect. Just an intake and you make a little hp gain. Add a cat-back and a little more. Add a race header and you get a little more. Cams, TBS, Hondata IMG and again you make slight gains. A Hondata reflash or hopefully a K-Pro will really start to make gains.

When the breathing of a motor is increased both in the intake and exhaust, combined cam lift and duration, a motor will make more horsepower with a well engineered ram air system. If any of you are old to remember the 60's, the L-88 Corvette made much more horsepower with cowl induction than did the lesser 427 versions. Why? Because of wild cams, ported heads with larger valves, headers and an 850 cfm Holley carb with a high rise intake manifold.

The real test for all of us is if someone like the OP going to the track before and after the install and seeing if there are any quantifiable results. Dynos are great for tuning, but really have no meaning for me otherwise.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Totally correct. As I previously said in an earlier post, it is virtually impossible to measure or quantify gains made by ram air. The reason being is that air needs to be flowing over the hood at a higher velocity and there needs to be a pressure increase at the base of the windshield.

The only way to simulate this would be a wind tunnel, especially the exotic moving windtunnels like they use in F1.

In the thread I created on Cowl Induction, there was an article that I copied about a Miata that used a homemade cowl induction setup. They noted that the only real way to test the cowl induction was to do acceleration tests before and after the mod.

They found that 0-60 times dropped .5 seconds, which is quite substantial. It would be like going from 0-60 in 6 seconds down to 5.5 seconds. They noted the increased passing power and midrange pull of the motor.

There are many pundits here about this setup. Ram air has been around for a long time. It was so impressive in F1 when they had the high mounted scoops above the roll bar, that they were banned. People might note that in F1 and ALMS racing, intake scoops are regulated in size, notably to decrease power.

The Gruppe M is a well thought out system. It is both a stylistic and engineering upgrade. While I still can't figure out the extra hole in the side of the airbox, I still think it is an impressive setup. The only thing that detracts from it is the price. I am choking everytime I think about paying over $1200 for something like this.

As many of you know, I desperately want something like this. Either I find a suitable airbox to which I can install a cone filter and then build a duct to the cowl area, or I grit my teeth and pay the money.

We must remember that a mod alone may give disappointing results. However, the sum total of all the mods has a multiplicative effect. Just an intake and you make a little hp gain. Add a cat-back and a little more. Add a race header and you get a little more. Cams, TBS, Hondata IMG and again you make slight gains. A Hondata reflash or hopefully a K-Pro will really start to make gains.

When the breathing of a motor is increased both in the intake and exhaust, combined cam lift and duration, a motor will make more horsepower with a well engineered ram air system. If any of you are old to remember the 60's, the L-88 Corvette made much more horsepower with cowl induction than did the lesser 427 versions. Why? Because of wild cams, ported heads with larger valves, headers and an 850 cfm Holley carb with a high rise intake manifold.

The real test for all of us is if someone like the OP going to the track before and after the install and seeing if there are any quantifiable results. Dynos are great for tuning, but really have no meaning for me otherwise.

Well stated however, our cars have shown that with more upgrades, it seems to just level out instead of have a mulitplying effect.

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

Well stated however, our cars have shown that with more upgrades, it seems to just level out instead of have a mulitplying effect.

but it's only b/c of lack of tuning...

[x_fg2_x]

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

but it's only b/c of lack of tuning...

which is why hondata needs to chop chop on the new kpro!

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

but it's only b/c of lack of tuning...

Originally Posted by x_fg2_x

which is why hondata needs to chop chop on the new kpro!

Well said both of you. Having the tuning option would optimize a ram air system just like it would with cams of a race header. It does seem that we are on the verge of a breakthrough though in a number of areas. Just look at the recent activity in the intake department what with Gruppe M, Mishimoto and the like.

According to Hondata and a post they made here awhile back, they claim they will have something out by the end of this year. Let's keep hoping.

[eugenekim.net]

could u use a boost gauge to measure the effect?

[F-1 Si]

Originally Posted by eugenekim.net

could u use a boost gauge to measure the effect?

I think you would need it to be fully enclosed to do so.

[08_tw_si]

Originally Posted by Dwn4nythng

Riceeee

hey i know what rice is...grown in fields, picked by people or machine, sold to people, peolpe cook and then eat with other things or just rice alone........thats what rice is........this intake looks nothing like white rice to me.......hahah j/p

[soxfan143]

Originally Posted by Dwn4nythng

Riceeee

I wish I could really do this sometimes when I see statements like these.

[quote=k20z3 Koop;2457051]^ Lol, and here he comes to save the day with some unnecessary negativity.

Also, The OPs well made, authentic and functional piece is rice...however this engine bay isn't?


look familiar?

If you don't have anything productive to say, don't say anything at all.


Haha.. I love it.

[slesholdofthreep]

Originally Posted by eugenekim.net

could u use a boost gauge to measure the effect?

The gauge would need to be extremely sensitive. The amount of positive pressure is probably less than one psi.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by k20z3 Koop

^ Lol, and here he comes to save the day with some unnecessary negativity.

Also, The OPs well made, authentic and functional piece is rice...however this engine bay isn't?


look familiar?

If you don't have anything productive to say, don't say anything at all.

To the OP: looks sick man, i didn't think id see someone with this so soon. Look forward to more info!

[quote=soxfan143;2461648] I wish I could really do this sometimes when I see statements like these.

Originally Posted by k20z3 Koop

^ Lol, and here he comes to save the day with some unnecessary negativity.

Also, The OPs well made, authentic and functional piece is rice...however this engine bay isn't?


look familiar?

If you don't have anything productive to say, don't say anything at all.


Haha.. I love it.

+1 to both you guys. If the Gruppe M is rice, then can you imagine what that guy would say if he saw an F1 car. How is a well engineered, beautifully designed and made cf airbox rice?

For me, calling the Gruppe M rice is a very reckless statement. Obviously this individual is clueless when it comes to defining rice.

[Shark Tek]

^^^ That is true

[mattsbobo]

Mugen, Spoon, Top Secret, Mines, Tom's, Opera, not to mention the Drift King are all rice as well:rot fl:

You guys are right though, this GruppeM stuff is the riciest shit I've ever seen:

1993 Acura NSX - Featured Cars - Honda Tuning Magazine

That poor car looks like somebody went crazy with the Pep Boys catalog.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by mattsbobo

Mugen, Spoon, Top Secret, Mines, Tom's, Opera, not to mention the Drift King are all rice as well:rot fl:

You guys are right though, this GruppeM stuff is the riciest shit I've ever seen:

1993 Acura NSX - Featured Cars - Honda Tuning Magazine

I thought I read that gruppem made intakes for ferrari or something. ??

[mattsbobo]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

I thought I read that gruppem made intakes for ferrari or something. ??

From what I understand they do, as well as Lambo

[xxmstajxx]

wow...amazing how far this went..... so when are they coming ont for the coupe?