Gruppe-M Ram Air System Installed

[mattsbobo]

Very well said a few posts above Bill. Those were pretty much the points I wanted to make, but didn't want to sound like I was starting an e-argument.

A love letter? Come on guys.

[aki]

Does K20SDN post anywhere else? Wanna see the progress of his car still.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by aki

Does K20SDN post anywhere else? Wanna see the progress of his car still.

He got beaten down pretty badly in his other thread and he removed all the pics and info. Nasif is a really nice guy and it was a shame some haters came on and spoiled it for the rest of us.

[borabora1989]

man... thats messed up

[soxfan143]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Mike, I won't defend my own system against the Gruppe M as theirs has one million light years the bling that mine does.

With that said, both Matt and I are using a 4" opening on the top of the airbox. Both feed directly into the cowl. Looking at the Gruppe M access to the cowl, it looks smaller.

Also, both our airbox covers have been enlarged, Matt's considerably so in the front. We both use Amsoil cone filters, which btw, is an advantage. The Amsoil filter not only is much larger than that on the Gruppe M, but it flows better and is a dry type of filter.

Mine also uses an M&M scoop which feeds into the motor much more air than the little hole on the side of the Gruppe M. Finally, as was mentioned, I have a Soxfan143 MAF housing. Together as a package, I feel I am outlflowing the Gruppe M although I have no hard data to support that.

One airbox you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the clear advantage is Moose's. Look how huge the airbox itself is. The cone filter is practically lost in all that space. Moose has a well though out side mount duct and has a ram air feed from the front grille to the airbox base. C'mon, no way the Gruppe M is going to top that.

BTW Mike, why did they include that lame front mounted scoop that attaches to the top of the cowl if their engineering is so much better than conventional wisdom?

So, with the larger airbox cover, 4" cowl duct, larger cone filter and Soxfan143 housing, advantage: backyard over Gruppe M.

Bill I'm not going to deny the fact that your intake flows awesome and it probably works awesome. Especially with my MAF housing. Hehe. Lol...but I should have mentioned that I was thinking of the Gruppe-M with my MAF housing on it. And the fact that this intake was designed on a motor without a MAF sensor really doesn't make one lick of difference. The sole purpose of an intake system is to get air into the motor. It does the same job whether it's flowing through and over a MAF sensor or not. As long as the air flows across the MAF sensor as designed and into the motor it will function perfectly. Also the motors are basically the same and that wouldn't make any difference either.

Second. I'm sure a company like Gruppe-M has a reason why that scoop is the way it is. They probably tested that thing in a wind tunnel and with all kinds of different scenarios and found that it worked better that way. I guarantee they do not make products with any gimmicks involved. I'm sure that a select few custom intakes will outflow it but the majority of them would not. And you have to compare apples to apples here. The Gruppe-M is a compact/show quality intake that functions extremely well. It's not some custom made 100% function only intake. In other words, they have to worry about appearance a LOT more than someone looking to up the performance only without bling in mind. So you have to give them credit for making something so pretty and so functional. I really should have explained myself a little more clearly I guess. But for just pure functionality and performance I would have to give it to you and moose.

[aki]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

He got beaten down pretty badly in his other thread and he removed all the pics and info. Nasif is a really nice guy and it was a shame some haters came on and spoiled it for the rest of us.

Sorry I meant does he post on any other board regularly.

[mattsbobo]

Thanks for the clear up Mike. I totally agree that Gruppe M outblings every one of our intakes...even my gold foil. I was arguing more from the function, over the fashion point of view.

[mattsbobo]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

He got beaten down pretty badly in his other thread and he removed all the pics and info. Nasif is a really nice guy and it was a shame some haters came on and spoiled it for the rest of us.

I hate that he pulled all his pics. It was great referance material.

[NitrousG35]

delete

[mattsbobo]

I'm willing to bet that Gruppe M didn't do any wind tunnel testing. Do you know how much it costs to use a wind tunnel? I don't, but I know that you have to have A LOT of extra cash laying around to get anybody who owns a wind tunnel, to let you use theirs. Plus Gruppe M isn't that big of a company.

I've also read sowhere else (mind you, this was on the internet, so I'm not taking it anywhere near 100% accurate), that the Gruppe M takes most of it's air through the side opening in the engine bay, and that the cowl port isn't that big at all.<<That I can absolutely believe.

Gruppe M's intake for the Euro Type R is completely different than the one for the FD2. I'm still undecided on the Euro intake. It can be seen in the thread posted below:

FN2 GruppeM - Civinfo

I actually prefer the airbox for the Euro R, because it looks a lot more functional than the FD2 airbox. It's just the method Gruppe M uses to scoop the air for the Euro box, that I'm not 100% sold on.

[dt07Si]

^^^Hmm thats an interesting approach!

I just want soemone to come out with a nice Ice box style intake like the M&M intake or T1R concept with a nice ram air duct. I don't feel like fabricating my own intake.

[mattsbobo]

I'd still like to get an extra hood, put a NACA duct towards the front of it, and have that feed air to the lower port on the Si airbox.

[squidmaster]

even though the original post was deleted, this intake is frigin' dope.
if anyone wants to make one I'll buy one

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by mattsbobo

I'm willing to bet that Gruppe M didn't do any wind tunnel testing. Do you know how much it costs to use a wind tunnel? I don't, but I know that you have to have A LOT of extra cash laying around to get anybody who owns a wind tunnel, to let you use theirs. Plus Gruppe M isn't that big of a company.

I've also read sowhere else (mind you, this was on the internet, so I'm not taking it anywhere near 100% accurate), that the Gruppe M takes most of it's air through the side opening in the engine bay, and that the cowl port isn't that big at all.<<That I can absolutely believe.

Gruppe M's intake for the Euro Type R is completely different than the one for the FD2. I'm still undecided on the Euro intake. It can be seen in the thread posted below:

FN2 GruppeM - Civinfo

I actually prefer the airbox for the Euro R, because it looks a lot more functional than the FD2 airbox. It's just the method Gruppe M uses to scoop the air for the Euro box, that I'm not 100% sold on.

Well said Matt, my alter-ego. We have been conjoined in the mind. We are one.

[mattsbobo]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Well said Matt, my alter-ego. We have been conjoined in the mind. We are one.

Well, we are two of God's chosen.

[aki]

I'm skeptical of Chevrolet proving in the 60s the reverse scoop being best. If it's the best, why haven't car makers today adopted it? The main benefit to the reverse scoop would seem to be cooling the engine air.

Both the cowl induction and reverse scoop would seem limited in benefit because I don't see how they'd effectively pull air in. Scoops need to be tall enough to stick out above the boundary layer of the airflow. If they don't, then they don't reach the low-pressure air. Air at the boundary layer is slower, which you don't want--you want fast air. Which is why older WRX scoops were so tall and ugly. A general diagram would be this (granted IRL the boundary layer would probably be closer to the car):



Ideally an intake would draw from the stagnation point above the boundary layer. A reverse scoop would definitely not reach above the boundary layer, and the front-faced cowl from Gruppe-M may or may not. The only possible downside to the cowl as opposed to the reverse scoop would be flow separation and turbulence created from the scoop jutting out, but given its small size I doubt it'd have much of an adverse effect.

The other modding possibility would be to stick a NACA duct on the hood, which actually would be the best solution because it minimizes turbulence while allowing faster air to hit the intake, creating a ram-air effect. Either way, the ram-air effect wouldn't be felt unless you were going at least 50mph, so it's something that'd only really help on the track.

[squidmaster]

Ima make my own damn custom intake.

[chugiboi]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

hopefully this intake is okay to drive in the rain. or am i missing something.

[aki]

According to the official site, there are "mechanisms in the system that allow for you to drive in the rain." On the other hand, it tells you right after that to "be careful" when tracking or going WOT in rain.... so, dunno. Guess you don't want to push it hard in the rain.

[NitrousG35]

delete