Cowl induction for cold, ram air for the Si?

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by mattsbobo

I've also wondered if anybody has thought about using that gold, automotive heat wrap that you see in the engine bays of soooooo many racecars.

I've always thought about wraping my Fujita SRI with it, but have never done it.

Matt, there is much to what you said. I was going to buy a K&N SRI last year, but the V1 had the production stopped on it. In order to combat the heat, I bought a heat wrap for the intake tube.

Coatings and heat wrappings do a great job of insulating an airbox from heat. Remember that for every 10 degree drop in temperature, there is a corresponding 2-3 hp gain. The reverse would be true as well as excess heat can rob hp.

I would think that gold film would be a good insulator.

[mattsbobo]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Matt, there is much to what you said. I was going to buy a K&N SRI last year, but the V1 had the production stopped on it. In order to combat the heat, I bought a heat wrap for the intake tube.

Coatings and heat wrappings do a great job of insulating an airbox from heat. Remember that for every 10 degree drop in temperature, there is a corresponding 2-3 hp gain. The reverse would be true as well as excess heat can rob hp.

I would think that gold film would be a good insulator.

Maybe I'll get some of that, and wrap the Fujita, then try and build the box, and scoop around that.

Any suggestions from the peanut gallery are much appreciated.

[BrineSI]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Coatings and heat wrappings do a great job of insulating an airbox from heat. Remember that for every 10 degree drop in temperature, there is a corresponding 2-3 hp gain. The reverse would be true as well as excess heat can rob hp. .

Just a question: does this 10 degree drop in temperature mean from the intake to TB or TB to engine. My worry and thought is that it would take a drastic drop in air intake temperature to even see a 2-3 hp gain as the heat of the TB etc. is so hot that it's sort of working like a hair dryer: cool air enters from the back but because the internal components are so hot, it blows out hot air on the front end instantly - air can be heated up so quickly that cooling down intake temperature even 10 degrees seems like it wouldn't help much, intercoolers on turbos work well because they drastically cool down the air... correct?

[Si Speed 317]

Originally Posted by firstsi

hey dan, ouldnt steel pick up ambient heat from the engine and defeat the whole purpose

wouldnt it be better to make the box out of something less conductive?

Yes to a certain extent but I'm not exactly "sure" of how to do the fiberglassing of the box if I did. I would love to though I might have my father help me with that if I do.

Originally Posted by mattsbobo

I've also wondered if anybody has thought about using that gold, automotive heat wrap that you see in the engine bays of soooooo many racecars.

I've always thought about wraping my Fujita SRI with it, but have never done it.

Pics pweeze

Originally Posted by firstsi

i was gonna have my fujita ceramic coated, but i sold it in anticipation for this set up

i did wrap the rad hose with heat cloth where the touch the intake tube

Where and how much would that be?

Originally Posted by mattsbobo

I know it might be slightly counterproductive to what we've been discussing, because it's made of metal, but what about building an enclosed airbox (with cowl scoop) around a regular SRI like Fujita?

It is doable, but you have to make your own box and that isn't easy.

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Matt, there is much to what you said. I was going to buy a K&N SRI last year, but the V1 had the production stopped on it. In order to combat the heat, I bought a heat wrap for the intake tube.

Coatings and heat wrappings do a great job of insulating an airbox from heat. Remember that for every 10 degree drop in temperature, there is a corresponding 2-3 hp gain. The reverse would be true as well as excess heat can rob hp.

I would think that gold film would be a good insulator.

What is a good heatwrapping for a box?

Originally Posted by BrineSI

Just a question: does this 10 degree drop in temperature mean from the intake to TB or TB to engine. My worry and thought is that it would take a drastic drop in air intake temperature to even see a 2-3 hp gain as the heat of the TB etc. is so hot that it's sort of working like a hair dryer: cool air enters from the back but because the internal components are so hot, it blows out hot air on the front end instantly - air can be heated up so quickly that cooling down intake temperature even 10 degrees seems like it wouldn't help much, intercoolers on turbos work well because they drastically cool down the air... correct?

Intake to TB I believe and yes intercoolers cool airdrastically, but we can't have an intercooler without FI setup. The cooler the air the better =D

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by BrineSI

Just a question: does this 10 degree drop in temperature mean from the intake to TB or TB to engine. My worry and thought is that it would take a drastic drop in air intake temperature to even see a 2-3 hp gain as the heat of the TB etc. is so hot that it's sort of working like a hair dryer: cool air enters from the back but because the internal components are so hot, it blows out hot air on the front end instantly - air can be heated up so quickly that cooling down intake temperature even 10 degrees seems like it wouldn't help much, intercoolers on turbos work well because they drastically cool down the air... correct?

That is a great question. My understanding is that we are talking about the intake charge in the air cleaner/airbox area. This is generally where temperature differentials are measured.

I think that the colder, denser air with more velocity will override the TB. Whether it be a TB or a carburetor, the incoming intake charge is what increases performance. This same idea applies to nitrous as well, which is introduced in the intake stream before the TB. My G35 has the nozzle in the z-tube which is before the TB.

One more thing: we all have noticed how much better our cars or any car for that matter, performs on a cool, fall day where the air is denser as compared to a hot, summer day where the motor feels kind of flat. It has to do with the air that is being ingested into the motor. Anything that can cool down that intake charge whether it be an intercooler, nitrous or ram air will have a corresponding effect on the performance of the motor.

Here are a couple of things I found out about the effects of air temperature:

Air Density: Cold Air and Ram Air Power gains
Most people who doubt ram air merely call them cold air intakes delivering a cooler denser air charge to the motor and that is where they achieve there power, not from any CFM flow or Psi increases. Well, it is a combination of CFM and air density caused by lower air temps or altitudes. Once again this is system and application dependant but generally they say (text books) that a 10 degree drop in air temperature is worth about 2 Hp. We like to think of this as a raw number because this application is a street driven LS1 or LS6. We are talking about a Mass Airflow Meter controlled vehicle that will tune or adjust to the weather conditions for you. When in cooler weather the computer will not back the timing out of the motor as quickly and it will richen the car up for you to some degree to take advantage of the added air, basically tuning the car for you. This is worth more than the 2 Hp you are seeing at peak power. It translates into a lot more power under the curve. Air flow rate, air pressure and air density is our priority. If you had to prioritize them in order you would be making a mistake. They all work together. Air Flow Rate

Vararam Industries - About

The special ducted fiberglass hood that was designed for use with the Camaro is probably one of the best examples of style and function combined. The hood was intended primarily for the Trans-Am competing Z/28s. It was designed to take advantage of the high pressure area at the base of the windshield in order to draft fresh cold air to the induction system. This method was chosen over forward facing scoops which create greater pressures and increased ram effect but have problems associated with air turbulence at the carburetor air horn. As for effect, an approximate 1% horsepower increase is gained for every 11 degree drop in temperature providing the fuel mixture is adjusted accordingly.Air Density
Z/28 Cross Ram

This from Miata.net in Australia: Using the rule of thumb that a 4 degrees C temperature drop is worth an extra 1% power, this would imply that I could expect up to 7% extra power over the standard system.
Air Pressure

When we deal with a ram air system whether it be from the cowl or the lower bumper area, we need to consider air pressure, air velocity and air temperature. All three have a considerable bearing on greater power. This is why I initially proposed cowl induction because a typical intake system only increases power by using a cone filter, not by utilizing higher air pressure and velocity and lower air temperatures.

Hope this helps. I also suppose that use a TB bypass would enhance performance too during the summer months as would a composite intake manifold like Skunk2 is working on. Anything to reduce the temperature of the intake charge should have a positive effect on performance.

[BrineSI]

Ahhhh, very nice. Thanks for the info...

[firstsi]

hey dan,
my brother used to work for maryland performance coatings
where they do ceramic, dont know what it would cost, but my exhaust manifold for my cbr was about 50 bucks and thats twice the size of a fujita if not more

[Si Speed 317]

^ Ah, thank you for the numbers. I will be checking tomorrow for a box idea. I have a Biology exam at 8:30am till 9:45am and then I'm FREE!!! So I'll be working my ass off on that box and then I will figure out the best way to route the piping. I think I have it figured out already to be honest.

Bill, I went to Pep Boys today and I found that the 22degree and 45degree pipes from spectre fit into eachother, so I can attack them like so

[NitrousG35]

^ Dan, glad you could find the Spectre Industries pipes. A lot of this is trial and error. I have had to experiment with angles until I got the right angle and length. I ended up trying out a 60 degree angle pipe which I shortened.

The Amsoil filter now angles downward more and sits right in the middle of the CRV airbox, which is what I wanted. I may have to do some mild fabricating on the CRV cover to make the final connection to the wiper cowl area.

[Si Speed 317]

That is cool. What I am trying to do is get whatever box I make to fit IN the engine bay in one piece. I think the stock box doesn't fit in one piece, one has to go in at a time. That is my downfall =/

[NitrousG35]

Dan, I wish I were better at fabricating. I found a site with carbon fiber sheets. I wish I could work with the sheets as I could come up with an optimum design.

I feel that some form of plastic is probably the best option when constructing an airbox as the heat transfer is radically reduced. For the moment, the CRV airbox is the best option I have found as it is close to what we have now with stock mounting points and a larger interior volume.

[BrineSI]

So Si Speed, are you going for cowl induction or just a better stock like box design with conical air filter?

[mattsbobo]

Originally Posted by Si Speed 317

Pics pweeze

Here you go: CDOC.com | Gold Foil Film PSA, 1'x24" (2009-GOLDFOIL)

The stuff is expensive, but you gotta pay to play. You'll find that foil in the engine bays of pretty much every top tier race league on the planet... except Nascar of course.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by mattsbobo

Here you go: CDOC.com | Gold Foil Film PSA, 1'x24" (2009-GOLDFOIL)

The stuff is expensive, but you gotta pay to play. You'll find that foil in the engine bays of pretty much every top tier race league on the planet... except Nascar of course.

Actually Matt, it is not too expensive. You get a 1 foot by 2 foot piece for around $33. Talk about bling, plus, it has great heat reflective properties.

I just wish I was friends with Gordon Murray. Can you imagine the stuff he could design for the Si? He'd probably do an entire car out of carbon fiber.

[mattsbobo]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Actually Matt, it is not too expensive. You get a 1 foot by 2 foot piece for around $33. Talk about bling, plus, it has great heat reflective properties.

I just wish I was friends with Gordon Murray. Can you imagine the stuff he could design for the Si? He'd probably do an entire car out of carbon fiber.

I just wonder how long it will stick for. The description makes it sound like it's removed after each race. I'm sure you could make it last though if you wanted to. Every time I'm at VIR (who's store sells a ton of CDOC's catalog) I ALMOST buy some of this. Now I want some more than ever. I'd be interested to see what how different the intake air temp is.

[BrineSI]

Silicon glue and you'd be good to go...

[mattsbobo]

Originally Posted by BrineSI

Silicon glue and you'd be good to go...

Would it work on a metal SRI, and not loosen due to engine temps? Clearly I don't know anything about silicon glue.

<<<<<<Such a tard

[BrineSI]

You can get special kinds that are made for high temps and bond almost anything...