Cowl induction for cold, ram air for the Si?

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

That looks like a great setup Jeremy, but the problem is that air is being drawn in from an area that is a low pressure area. Air needs to be taken in either from beneath the bumper, high up in the airstream, or at the base of the windshield.

The issue here is more than just cold air. It is air being rammed in. Ram Air is a great way to enhance performance.

You could run it to the gap in the front of the bumper. The water would never make it up the pipe. It's the same as the J's racing one.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

You could run it to the gap in the front of the bumper. The water would never make it up the pipe. It's the same as the J's racing one.

The only problem is that aerodynamicists have found that mounting a scoop above the bumper or at the centerline reduces the ram air effect. You will note that even Chevrolet, which pioneered aerodynamic theory back in 1968 and 1969, uses a forward facing scoop on the Z06. This is done out of necessity rather than practicality.

The intake on the motor faces forward, not backwards. There simply isn't enough room in the engine bay on the Corvette to run ducts backwards to the cowl area. Chevrolet also does not want to run a reverse hood scoop like on the 1969 ZL2 hood found on the Camaro as it reduces aerodynamic efficiency.

Still, you may be on to something. Anything is better than the current setup. Tightness in the engine compartment may necessitate options other than the cowl area.

[soxfan143]

Do you mean like the Gruppe M intake for the type R? There was a thread a while ago with this in it. Check it out. I said that combining this would be sweet but because of the master cylinder it wont fit. But the idea is there. Someone just needs to get the cowl setup and then mod it. But a 1000.00 for an intake that you can only use a couple pieces of would be a little expensive.

https://www.gruppem.co.jp/onlinestor...roducts_id=137

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

The only problem is that aerodynamicists have found that mounting a scoop above the bumper or at the centerline reduces the ram air effect. You will note that even Chevrolet, which pioneered aerodynamic theory back in 1968 and 1969, uses a forward facing scoop on the Z06. This is done out of necessity rather than practicality.

The intake on the motor faces forward, not backwards. There simply isn't enough room in the engine bay on the Corvette to run ducts backwards to the cowl area. Chevrolet also does not want to run a reverse hood scoop like on the 1969 ZL2 hood found on the Camaro as it reduces aerodynamic efficiency.

Still, you may be on to something. Anything is better than the current setup. Tightness in the engine compartment may necessitate options other than the cowl area.

I mean in the bumper opening; not the grill.

Originally Posted by soxfan143

Do you mean like the Gruppe M intake for the type R? There was a thread a while ago with this in it. Check it out. I said that combining this would be sweet but because of the master cylinder it wont fit. But the idea is there. Someone just needs to get the cowl setup and then mod it. But a 1000.00 for an intake that you can only use a couple pieces of would be a little expensive.

https://www.gruppem.co.jp/onlinestor...roducts_id=137

That's nice. I wish someone would put a maf adaptor on that one.

[soxfan143]

It won't work because of our master cylinder. That intake is designed for the Type R Right hand drive. but I bet it would work with a little modding. But like I said, who is willing to drop a grand for a mybe? But the idea is there. ya know?

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

I mean in the bumper opening; not the grill.



That's nice. I wish someone would put a maf adaptor on that one.

Jeremy, if it could be mounted in the lower bumper area, that would fantastic as the air pressure is higher there and would be pulled in more readily than higher up. Thanks for the clarification.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by soxfan143

Do you mean like the Gruppe M intake for the type R? There was a thread a while ago with this in it. Check it out. I said that combining this would be sweet but because of the master cylinder it wont fit. But the idea is there. Someone just needs to get the cowl setup and then mod it. But a 1000.00 for an intake that you can only use a couple pieces of would be a little expensive.

https://www.gruppem.co.jp/onlinestor...roducts_id=137

Mike, as I have repeatedly said, it takes a village to mod a Civic. Keep coming up with the brainstorming. I know we can make this work.

[soxfan143]

It would still be a PITA to get the cold air to the filter at the firewall from under the bumper. No? You would still have to create a sealed enclosure around the filter to keep positive air pressure for it to work efficiently. Right? Or maybe you could just put an enclosure around a CAI system in the bumper. But wouldn't we be right back in the hydrolock situation again?

[soxfan143]

I agree 100%. Lets figure this out then.

[Vtec_Yo]

You better patent your creation!

[Soichiro Jr.]

A lot of good thinking going on in here. I like Excalibers idea.... Are we sure that the area of high pressure at the base of the windshield is really that great on our cars considering how steeply raked the windshield is? Here's a crappy picture I found: http://www.honda.com.my/images/civic...erodynamic.jpg I don't really know if that helps with what I'm trying to say. Check out this web page> Aerodynamics and click on the 4th link down titled "Drag Coefficient" or just scroll down to the bold heading Drag Coefficient. Under this heading it says,"The shape of a car, as the aerodynamic theory above suggests, is largely responsible for how much drag the car has. Ideally, the car body should:

-Have a small grill, to minimize frontal pressure
-Have a steeply raked windshield to avoid pressure build up in front"

There are more "shoulds" that it lists, but these two points^ sounds very much like our cars. I don't know, maybe I'm waaaay off base, but I'm just thinking that cowl induction worked well for older cars because their windshields were almost vertical,j/k. I know that the high pressure area at the base of the windshield is present on our cars, because of the hood to windshield transition, but is that high pressure area really that great on the 8thgens? IMO, I think the fog light opening would be an area of higher pressure than the cowl on our beloved Civics.

EDIT- No need to click link or scroll down on the Aerodynamics page, once you click the above link- you are there, hehe

[Turbotezza]

Hmmm.... If we relocate the battery to where the stock airbox is now and move the radiatior overfow tank out of the way, that would leave a nice clear area just behind the headlight for a induction box. Hmmm....

Hmmm.... Now if we remove the stock airbox resonator from underneath, that would leave space for an air scoop for that induction box, wouldn't it? Hmmm....

[Soichiro Jr.]

Originally Posted by Turbotezza

Hmmm.... If we relocate the battery to where the stock airbox is now and move the radiatior overfow tank out of the way, that would leave a nice clear area just behind the headlight for a induction box. Hmmm....

Hmmm.... Now if we remove the stock airbox resonator from underneath, that would leave space for an air scoop for that induction box, wouldn't it? Hmmm....

Nice. Plus it would be better weight distribution with the battery near the firewall.

[soxfan143]

The space where an intercooler would be and where the radiator is is where the most airflow is. The fog light area would be good but not as good as the center area. And the base of the windshield would be ok but it would be the last of the three but it all depends on how we route the intake pipe and where the filter is. So the location of the intake vent depends on what intake system we use.

[nandro]

i wish an aftermarket company would come up with a cowl inducted hood for the si and a canister filter that has a rubber seal up against hood. the canister can be located right where the stock filter box is. had this same setup in my old 1991 z-24.

retrofit doesn't seem to be that difficult either as long as there's a metal cowl hood out there that can be hacked up! hmmmm

[F-1 Si]

Originally Posted by Turbotezza

Initially I was only going to reveal my plans once my DIY induction box was completed, but since this thread is here...oh well.



Notes:

1) The sillicone pipes are from scilliconeintakes.com 45deg 2.5", 45deg 3" to 2.5" angle reducer & 3" straight coupler.

2) Airfilter is a K&N unit 6.5" long & has a 6" opening for a Blox intake stack.

3) The MAF holder is from Pep Boys. Features a MAF adapter I made from 1/4" basswood. I added in some fins from 0.5mm alum and epoxied(the white stuff) them in. The leading edge of both fins have been bent a little to direct more airflow into the MAF unit to compensate for the intake, headers & exhaust. I haven't as yet dynoed with a/f measuring, so the current agle of the fins is just a guess. As is I don't have any bogging or surging so I should be fine for now.

4) The throttle response is noticeably better & probably gained a few hp also.

Nice job good start

[F-1 Si]

Originally Posted by Turbotezza

Hmmm.... If we relocate the battery to where the stock airbox is now and move the radiatior overfow tank out of the way, that would leave a nice clear area just behind the headlight for a induction box. Hmmm....

Hmmm.... Now if we remove the stock airbox resonator from underneath, that would leave space for an air scoop for that induction box, wouldn't it? Hmmm....

This is definately a great idea to move the battery. I'm already thinking of using th password jdm relocator and battery or going back to my muscle car days and moving it to the trunk.

This will leave a boat load of room for clean fresh air and ducting, your totally right.....

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by nandro

i wish an aftermarket company would come up with a cowl inducted hood for the si and a canister filter that has a rubber seal up against hood. the canister can be located right where the stock filter box is. had this same setup in my old 1991 z-24.

retrofit doesn't seem to be that difficult either as long as there's a metal cowl hood out there that can be hacked up! hmmmm

If you had a dedicated hood, it would be easy to connect to the box in which the canister is located.

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by F-1 Si

This is definately a great idea to move the battery. I'm already thinking of using th password jdm relocator and battery or going back to my muscle car days and moving it to the trunk.

This will leave a boat load of room for clean fresh air and ducting, your totally right.....

I considered moving the battery to the trunk, but changed my mind for several reasons. It would be much easier to make space by going with a smaller battery and reorienting like in the below PIC:

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by Soichiro Jr.

A lot of good thinking going on in here. I like Excalibers idea.... Are we sure that the area of high pressure at the base of the windshield is really that great on our cars considering how steeply raked the windshield is? Here's a crappy picture I found: http://www.honda.com.my/images/civic...erodynamic.jpg I don't really know if that helps with what I'm trying to say. Check out this web page> Aerodynamics and click on the 4th link down titled "Drag Coefficient" or just scroll down to the bold heading Drag Coefficient. Under this heading it says,"The shape of a car, as the aerodynamic theory above suggests, is largely responsible for how much drag the car has. Ideally, the car body should:

-Have a small grill, to minimize frontal pressure
-Have a steeply raked windshield to avoid pressure build up in front"

There are more "shoulds" that it lists, but these two points^ sounds very much like our cars. I don't know, maybe I'm waaaay off base, but I'm just thinking that cowl induction worked well for older cars because their windshields were almost vertical,j/k. I know that the high pressure area at the base of the windshield is present on our cars, because of the hood to windshield transition, but is that high pressure area really that great on the 8thgens? IMO, I think the fog light opening would be an are