Cowl induction for cold, ram air for the Si?

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by x_fg2_x

im one of the ones from FG coupe that did this " Ram air " ideas. Does it work? I have absolutly no idea. I only did it because I had time to waste, wanted to have some fun, the theory is there and most deffinately possible, and its cheap.

So heres the theory and design I came up with. Ok, so I have seen several picture of drag cars that have bevels sticking out of their front bumper for the intakes to their turbos.. I have seen brake ducts sticking out of the front bumpers to ventilate the front brakes. And the most obvious, when you are driving your car, the head wind hits the front bumper directly. So there would be no difference between a brake duct or turbo inlet sticking out of a front bumper than a regular NA intake pipe sticking out as well.

So here is where I placed my engines intake.. You can see it sticking out of the area where the fog light is supose to be.


So there goes the air. Someone else on the FG coupe forum did something similar to this, except, from what I could make out of his posts, he had the hole there, and then a CAI right there. Nothing that Dirctly connets. So its just the regular CAI just like how its supose to be installed , and a hole in the fog light cover to let fresh air into that chamber where the CAI was. Problem with that, is there would be no pressure being put onto the filter. Its just, sucking in air like normal, except maybe a little cooler. So my idea was to directly connect a pipe from this hole to the stock intake box. And I did so by taking the rubber piece that belongs to the stock intake system that connects the intake to the inside of the fender. And Used that as the bevel, connected that to a pipe, and connected the other end to the stock intake box.

Here's the piping..







so then the only issue after that is what then, after it gets into the intake box, what happens then. And What I did, was I did exactly what someone else mentioned in here where they smoothed out the inside of the intake box. And I also installed a K&N air filter. ( I have no pics of this )

So like I said, I dont know if this works or now. I havent dino'd the car yet period. And even if I did dyno it, it wouldnt give accurate readings because technically, when you dino a car, the cars no moving. So theres no head wind. Sooo. IDK how someone would messure any gains or losses with this.

So yeah, thats my intake.

I've been trying to get people to check out what you did. I'm glad you made it over here to showem yourself.

[c130turboprop]

ya, thanx a lot fg2... is there any way to get line to go straight to the front fender or is the radiator in the way or otherthings in the way??? juss wondering, i think that would be better if at all possible...

[Excalibur]

Hey, xfg2x, did you have to cut that piece where the metal piping has to wrap around? I'm talking about the metal piece in front of the wheelwell. It looks like it is to make the metal piping fit.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by x_fg2_x

im one of the ones from FG coupe that did this " Ram air " ideas. Does it work? I have absolutly no idea. I only did it because I had time to waste, wanted to have some fun, the theory is there and most deffinately possible, and its cheap.

So heres the theory and design I came up with. Ok, so I have seen several picture of drag cars that have bevels sticking out of their front bumper for the intakes to their turbos.. I have seen brake ducts sticking out of the front bumpers to ventilate the front brakes. And the most obvious, when you are driving your car, the head wind hits the front bumper directly. So there would be no difference between a brake duct or turbo inlet sticking out of a front bumper than a regular NA intake pipe sticking out as well.

So here is where I placed my engines intake.. You can see it sticking out of the area where the fog light is supose to be.


So there goes the air. Someone else on the FG coupe forum did something similar to this, except, from what I could make out of his posts, he had the hole there, and then a CAI right there. Nothing that Dirctly connets. So its just the regular CAI just like how its supose to be installed , and a hole in the fog light cover to let fresh air into that chamber where the CAI was. Problem with that, is there would be no pressure being put onto the filter. Its just, sucking in air like normal, except maybe a little cooler. So my idea was to directly connect a pipe from this hole to the stock intake box. And I did so by taking the rubber piece that belongs to the stock intake system that connects the intake to the inside of the fender. And Used that as the bevel, connected that to a pipe, and connected the other end to the stock intake box.

Here's the piping..







so then the only issue after that is what then, after it gets into the intake box, what happens then. And What I did, was I did exactly what someone else mentioned in here where they smoothed out the inside of the intake box. And I also installed a K&N air filter. ( I have no pics of this )

So like I said, I dont know if this works or now. I havent dino'd the car yet period. And even if I did dyno it, it wouldnt give accurate readings because technically, when you dino a car, the cars no moving. So theres no head wind. Sooo. IDK how someone would messure any gains or losses with this.

So yeah, thats my intake.

Brilliant. I love the simplicity of this setup. I have seen countless race cars over the years that have used the fog light area as a channel for tubing that feeds to the intake. You really have a well executed idea. I salute you for your ingenuity. BTW, your car is drop dead gorgeous. The shine, the wheels, the look. Well done.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by onefastsi

Well, I looked up the Gruppe M intake on the japanese site...over $1000 US dollars!!! :) Nice setup though! i'd pay for it...

Gulp. 1 grand? Uff-da. No wonder I like it so much. Well, scratch that from the list, at least for those of us on a budget.

[Sirbelch]

zzzzzzzz If that ram air could only use smoother tubing and have a bigger box with a bigger filter in it. Huh? What? ooooo man, I must have been dreaming.

[x_fg2_x]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Brilliant. I love the simplicity of this setup. I have seen countless race cars over the years that have used the fog light area as a channel for tubing that feeds to the intake. You really have a well executed idea. I salute you for your ingenuity. BTW, your car is drop dead gorgeous. The shine, the wheels, the look. Well done.

thanks man, thats very much appreciated. And it is simple. And cheap. The most expensive thing to it is the filter. which wasnt that much at all. And another great thing about it, is I have driven with it in HEAVY rain. I didnt have much of a choice, but I did, and no problems whatsoever. So The only issue I would have with this, is if I tried driving through a HUGE puddle. which I wouldnt do anyways, it could hydro lock. But I wouldnt do that anyways so im not worried.

ya, thanx a lot fg2... is there any way to get line to go straight to the front fender or is the radiator in the way or otherthings in the way??? juss wondering, i think that would be better if at all possible...

You mean strait to the front bumper? As in a strait pipe? Im not sure. I could look at my car when I get back to the shop tomorrow.

Hey, xfg2x, did you have to cut that piece where the metal piping has to wrap around? I'm talking about the metal piece in front of the wheelwell. It looks like it is to make the metal piping fit.

No its not cut. I attempted to dremel it off, but the steel is so hard, it warped the carbide bit I was using , and it actually snapped. I wasnt using eye protection ( stupid me ) and luckily it didnt fly into my eye, or any other part of me lol. But, im gunna talk to my technician at my body shop and see if he can cut that piece out a bit. He might not since its a pinch weld and he doesnt want to be responsible for any accidents. So idk. As of now, I just have that part of the tubing wrapped with a LOT of aluminum tape, and a LOT of duct tape to give it some rigitity (sp?) and some cushioning from the duct tape.

[c130turboprop]

not really straight pipe, but some way of getting tubing to go straighter to the airbox....

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by c130turboprop

not really straight pipe, but some way of getting tubing to go straighter to the airbox....

There just isn't a way to get a tube completely straight to the fog light area. It has to take a small bend in order make the hookup to the airbox. Even with slight bends, the vacuum from the box as well as the ram effect that increase with speed, the air velocity will still be quite good.

One of the reasons that I proposed accessing the air from the cowl area is that it would be a direct, straight shot. You would only need a few inches of hose to connect to a duct attached to the firewall.

When I get over this stupid flu that I have, I'll examine my cowl area and try and remove the black plastic where the wipers are. I have a hunch that the space under the black plastic is empty. This is probably where the factory has the intakes for the ventilation system.

[c130turboprop]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

There just isn't a way to get a tube completely straight to the fog light area. It has to take a small bend in order make the hookup to the airbox. Even with slight bends, the vacuum from the box as well as the ram effect that increase with speed, the air velocity will still be quite good.

One of the reasons that I proposed accessing the air from the cowl area is that it would be a direct, straight shot. You would only need a few inches of hose to connect to a duct attached to the firewall.

When I get over this stupid flu that I have, I'll examine my cowl area and try and remove the black plastic where the wipers are. I have a hunch that the space under the black plastic is empty. This is probably where the factory has the intakes for the ventilation system.

sounds good. i wish it was warmer where i live at, freakin winter!!!!!

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

There just isn't a way to get a tube completely straight to the fog light area. It has to take a small bend in order make the hookup to the airbox. Even with slight bends, the vacuum from the box as well as the ram effect that increase with speed, the air velocity will still be quite good.

One of the reasons that I proposed accessing the air from the cowl area is that it would be a direct, straight shot. You would only need a few inches of hose to connect to a duct attached to the firewall.

When I get over this stupid flu that I have, I'll examine my cowl area and try and remove the black plastic where the wipers are. I have a hunch that the space under the black plastic is empty. This is probably where the factory has the intakes for the ventilation system.

Its empty back there execpt for a big metal rod that I think supports the windshield whipers. That space is separated from the engine compartment because the bottom of the plastic cowl cover thing snaps into a flat metal shelf that runs between the strut towers and the top of the cover snaps into the windshield support. you would have to put a hole in that metal shelf between to access the engine bay.

I don't know if this has be said already, but the difference in angle between the hood and the windshield is not as much on our cars as it was on old muscle cars. I think that this smaller difference in angle would make for less of a high pressure area when compaired to muscle cars of old.

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by c130turboprop

sounds good. i wish it was warmer where i live at, freakin winter!!!!!

65 and sunny today. It was a hella nice day today.

[Si Speed 317]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Dan, simply ingenious. I like where you are going with the stock airbox. Is there a chance that the Fujita will fit in it?

I like what you have done with the airbox mounted down low and then connecting a snorkel tube to it.

Interestingly, when the military wants to find the best solution to a problem, they submit proposals to different contractors. The contractors then attack the problem and submit their answer. Sometimes the government picks one over the other and sometimes it incorporates ideas from the different designs.

I feel like we are going in the same direction. Let's attack the air induction box first as well as finding a suitable filter that will fit in. I am beginning to think that a cylindrical filter like Comptech used on its Icebox might be the best compromise.

Thanks again! The pictures I posted at one part it says VV Doesn't fit =/ meaning that the F5 Fujita filter doesn't fit. Well I think we have the 2 ways we could go with piping, but as you said we DO need to figure out what filter fits in what box.

I strongly believe that we don't want to make anymore bends of air flow than already exist in the system, nor do we want to make anymore air flow bends than necessary, so first things first is that the front of the filter, the unopened end should face where the air is coming from, like my drawing on the last post with all the pictures. That way air is sucked right in. I really think that the comptech box for the unknown acura is the best one yet.


That way our MAF Housing can be incorporated!!

Originally Posted by c130turboprop

this is what i was talking about about, the password jdm intake. this is the supreme way to make air flow around a sharp corner. using that as a basis, our stock airbox can take the place of that. juss clean up the inside and leave it empty like i said. that part is also sealed, like we want, but theres juss no filter there. instead of the filter in the box, we r gonna place the apexi filter with the front of it facing forward so the air is rammed into the velocity stack incorporated with that filter and the the back of it is connected to a free flowing tube that goes straight to the empty airbox which is now just a chamber of air, and obviously, another free flowing line going from the box to the throttlebody. the entire assembly is sealed, so it is sucking the air to it from the filter which is getting plenty of cool air from the front bumper.... maybe this makes more since now

That's what I did with my airbox. Dremeled out the interior and fiberglassed it for a DAMN smooth flow. Now we have to figure out a box to fit a filter in!

[x_fg2_x]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

65 and sunny today. It was a hella nice day today.

yes it was

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

Its empty back there execpt for a big metal rod that I think supports the windshield whipers. That space is separated from the engine compartment because the bottom of the plastic cowl cover thing snaps into a flat metal shelf that runs between the strut towers and the top of the cover snaps into the windshield support. you would have to put a hole in that metal shelf between to access the engine bay.

I don't know if this has be said already, but the difference in angle between the hood and the windshield is not as much on our cars as it was on old muscle cars. I think that this smaller difference in angle would make for less of a high pressure area when compaired to muscle cars of old.

Paul, is the area which is behind the firewall and below the wiper cowl area empty? If so, this would be perfect. My plan is cut an ovular shaped hole in the firewall area, attach a duct there, then connect via tubing to the air induction box. If that space is indeed empty, then there would be no issues with snow or rain water or any water being sucked into the intake.

As for the angle of the windshield, we have discussed this at length in other posts in the thread. My contention is that in NASCAR for example, they have steeply raked windshield, yet they all use cowl induction to feed rammed air into the carb. Many cars in road racing use a similar setup as well, especially when hood scoops are banned and the teams want to keep aero numbers good.

Car makers know that this particular area is a high pressure zone, hence the intake for the ventilation system there, not only on 8th Gen Civics, but all other cars as well. Unfortunately, I don't have any aero readings or pressure readings on an 8th Gen Civic. If anyone out there has aero/pressure info on our cars, feel free to chime in.

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Paul, is the area which is behind the firewall and below the wiper cowl area empty? If so, this would be perfect. My plan is cut an ovular shaped hole in the firewall area, attach a duct there, then connect via tubing to the air induction box. If that space is indeed empty, then there would be no issues with snow or rain water or any water being sucked into the intake.

So, you just want to cut a hole in the metal self and attach a duct to it? You don't want to run a duct all the way to the hole you put in the plastic cowl cover? If you don't run ducting to the plastic, I see no real problem but its been over a year since I've seen that area.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by Si Speed 317

Thanks again! The pictures I posted at one part it says VV Doesn't fit =/ meaning that the F5 Fujita filter doesn't fit. Well I think we have the 2 ways we could go with piping, but as you said we DO need to figure out what filter fits in what box.

I strongly believe that we don't want to make anymore bends of air flow than already exist in the system, nor do we want to make anymore air flow bends than necessary, so first things first is that the front of the filter, the unopened end should face where the air is coming from, like my drawing on the last post with all the pictures. That way air is sucked right in. I really think that the comptech box for the unknown acura is the best one yet.


That way our MAF Housing can be incorporated!!



That's what I did with my airbox. Dremeled out the interior and fiberglassed it for a DAMN smooth flow. Now we have to figure out a box to fit a filter in!

Dan, would it be possible to section out the area on our airboxes that angles downward and then either fiberglass or use cf to make the box retangular?

I wonder if we would then have enough space for a larger filter? It is important to have enough area inside the box for maximum airflow.

You make a great point about keeping bends to a minimum. I like your drawing. The straighter the better. We would need to find a material that would not flex or bend, but rather maintain its rigidity. Something like the plastic found on the Icebox would be ideal.