Cowl induction for cold, ram air for the Si?

[melomood]

thats a good idea!

[Si Speed 317]

And about that CRAI, I messaged Shizznaz(poster of the video and person who did the intake) and he sent me this about 2 months ago:

First off. I am using the stock airbox with a K&N air filter. And I am using the stock intake piping up untill it reaches the fog light cavity in the corner of the front bumper. Inside that cavity. There is an intake resonator. And from that it goes back up into the engine bay, and connects to the drivers side fender which is where the stock intake picks up its air. I Basically just cut off the resonator so that way the stock piping would now be picking air up from the fog light cavity.

From there, I removed the resonator, and the pipe leading to the fender. And there is short rubber pipe thing which is what you see coming out of the fog light hole. That is exactly 3 inches in diameter. So I cut a hole in the fog light cover using a dremel. So in order to get the stock intake pipe to pull air directly from this rubber tube that you see. You gotta get some kind of rubing or ducting to connect the two. I just went to home depot and bought some expandable and flexible metal ducting that should be in the air vent section. It is also 3 inches in diameter. I simply just cut it to size, and used some aluminum tape and duct tape to connect the ducting to the stock intake pipe as well as the rubber tube thing.

Now. if you decide to do this, there are a few things that I did in order to get this to not only fit, but to work properly without causing harm to the engine. First off. The tube that use to lead to the resonator. Its an oval shape in order to fit the tight quarters .. You just need to bend and shape the metal tubing that you can get at home depot and tape it together.

-------

However. There is a mush easier wat to do this. its something I have been wanting to do. but Im short on cash. You could go online and purchase brake ducting that racing teams use to cool their brakes. They come in all sorts of sizes but all you need is 3 inch inner diameter. And you can run this strait to the air box, all the way to the fog light cover just like I have it. This would be the best way to do it. Because it would be more free flowing.

If you have any other questions, feel free to email me. EMAIL ADDRESS was here but I took it out incase he doesn't want others to contact him.

[Si Speed 317]

Originally Posted by melomood

thats a good idea!

Thanks! I'm really into getting an amazing intake for the Si, and I'm also really glad that it's a DIY and not something being sold, at least not for a little while. So this is one of those DIY and not I'LL PAY XXX FOR IT!

[c130turboprop]

wow, i read the entire thread and there is a lot of brainstormin goin on here. good job all u guys. but i am still wondering about water issues with this. i noticed that when u wash your car that cowling area is basically a drain for water from the entire windshield. so how would you stop all of the water from getting to either the filter or piping cutting holes and everything else. and even the intake plumbing being open at the end, cant water just flow into the tubing by just gravity??? how would you stop water from getting to the system????

[Si Speed 317]

Originally Posted by c130turboprop

wow, i read the entire thread and there is a lot of brainstormin goin on here. good job all u guys. but i am still wondering about water issues with this. i noticed that when u wash your car that cowling area is basically a drain for water from the entire windshield. so how would you stop all of the water from getting to either the filter or piping cutting holes and everything else. and even the intake plumbing being open at the end, cant water just flow into the tubing by just gravity??? how would ou stop water from getting to the system????

That's why I had the idea of what I posted a few posts above. It's not nearly as much of an issue.

[c130turboprop]

ya, i see now, u posted it while i was typing mine out

[jdmkid88]

you guys should patent your ideas. i honestly think you all are coming along great. this is why i havent installed an intake system yet. im waiting for you guys to finalize it. they say good thing come to those who wait, but what you guys are coming up with is better than good.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by Si Speed 317

I've read this entire thread and NitrousG35 THANK YOU for wanting to work WITH 8thcivic and not FOR 8thcivic. You're a great guy.

As for this idea, the intercooler area is a high pressure area, right? Well here's my RAM idea, provided there's a conical filter and it's in a sealed box:






Of course please let me know if it's wrong etc. I just figured I took my own knowledge and what I learned in this thread and made an easy possibility I saw.

ALSO, I spoke with my father who is big into the whole automobile industry and he said there is a higher pressure point at the base of the windshield, however on the FG2 I have he said that it's not much of a higher pressure area when compared to 69 camaros etc. So That's why I went downwards with this. Also, there's no snow build up etc. with the above way I pictured.

This is a well thought out idea. The key is to access high pressure areas, which are natural conduits for the air to be rammed into the intake. You are definitely on the right track.

As for the comparo between the Camaro and the Si, you might be right that it could be greater on the Camaro than on the Si. However, if you look at NASCAR stock cars, they all use cowl induction to pull air into their intakes, and you might notice that they have pretty steeply raked windshields too.

Without being able to get aero numbers on the Si and pressure readings, it is only speculation. To me, the shortest route would still be to access the cowl area.

The biggest stumbling block for all of us whether accessing the lower bumper intake or the cowl area is an air induction box that would enshroud a conical filter. What we need to do is to take measurements of an Apexi filter like X is using and then go and find an existing airbox from another car. Someone mentioned that an Integra GSR from 1994-1998 has a box that will accomodate a conical filter.

Once we find a suitable air induction box, then we just need to plumb it with tubing, either to the cowl or to the lower bumper.

I know that if we put our collective heads together, we can come up with something. The reason companies have not produced something like this is because it is much easier to sell a filter on a stick than to engineer something that really works. My only regret is that we can't get a group of us together to hammer something out together.

[Si Speed 317]

Originally Posted by jdmkid88

you guys should patent your ideas. i honestly think you all are coming along great. this is why i havent installed an intake system yet. im waiting for you guys to finalize it. they say good thing come to those who wait, but what you guys are coming up with is better than good.

I agree, but patenting the final product is what counts I believe.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by c130turboprop

wow, i read the entire thread and there is a lot of brainstormin goin on here. good job all u guys. but i am still wondering about water issues with this. i noticed that when u wash your car that cowling area is basically a drain for water from the entire windshield. so how would you stop all of the water from getting to either the filter or piping cutting holes and everything else. and even the intake plumbing being open at the end, cant water just flow into the tubing by just gravity??? how would you stop water from getting to the system????

At the base of the hole cut in the firewall/cowl area, you could run weatherstripping like the manufacturers use to seal hoods to parts of the engine compartment. This would prevent water from being sucked up.

I haven't been able to examine the cowl area fully. It may be that water will just drain right to the ground without the need for any weatherstripping. Or, you could put drainage holes in the area. Remember that I am talking about the area below the windshield wiper cowling.

I have had the respiratory flu with a temp of 102.5 and our windchill here has been like -15. When the weather warms up and when I feel better, I'll park the car, take some pics and try and see if this idea is feasible or just some crackpot thought.

[Si Speed 317]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

This is a well thought out idea. The key is to access high pressure areas, which are natural conduits for the air to be rammed into the intake. You are definitely on the right track.

As for the comparo between the Camaro and the Si, you might be right that it could be greater on the Camaro than on the Si. However, if you look at NASCAR stock cars, they all use cowl induction to pull air into their intakes, and you might notice that they have pretty steeply raked windshields too.

Without being able to get aero numbers on the Si and pressure readings, it is only speculation. To me, the shortest route would still be to access the cowl area.

The biggest stumbling block for all of us whether accessing the lower bumper intake or the cowl area is an air induction box that would enshroud a conical filter. What we need to do is to take measurements of an Apexi filter like X is using and then go and find an existing airbox from another car. Someone mentioned that an Integra GSR from 1994-1998 has a box that will accomodate a conical filter.

Once we find a suitable air induction box, then we just need to plumb it with tubing, either to the cowl or to the lower bumper.

I know that if we put our collective heads together, we can come up with something. The reason companies have not produced something like this is because it is much easier to sell a filter on a stick than to engineer something that really works. My only regret is that we can't get a group of us together to hammer something out together.

Thank you for the compliment. I've ran this through my head in the past, but it didn't seem right, but here we are! Yes definitely the high pressure areas are most important. The way I did it would be MUCH easier for an R18.

Moving to NASCAR, they're right as well, but I'm taking into account that many of us live in places with weather conditions such as rain and snow and I know I would hate changing it out I agree the shortest route is the cowl area. But as you said the most important part is figuring out a sealed box with a conical filter such as A'PEXi or maybe one of those flatter cone filters someone posted a link of earlier in the thread. So we might come about 2 different ways to achieve the same thing, when it comes to piping.

I'm down for looking for a box that would fit a conical filter. I can check my friends integra, but also what about the S2k airbox or the RSX? They both use conical filters I believe.

And I wish we could all meet up and figure it out. I'll try as much out as I can. I have a stock airbox in my room that is gutted and fiberglassed on the inside, I just need to figure out a way to get this all to come together.

JUST got an idea, I remember seeing a few things online about filters, so here are some I think might work somehow:

^ That Probably won't, but why not bring it up?

I think something like this can work:

[NitrousG35]

Even with the steeply raked windshield found on the 8th Gen Civic, Honda, like all manufacturers, knows that this is the best place to draw in fresh air as the pressure is relatively high here. Rather than just utilizing the air for the ventilation system, I would kill two birds with one stone by picking up that same air to be ingested into the intake. Since the area is a high pressure zone, the air velocity will be greater, thus giving a ram effect.

[Si Speed 317]

^ I see what you mean more now. It's definitely do-able, we just have to wait until the weather is nicer. I'm leaning towards the intercooler section part only because it's better for those with bad weather conditions. This is all definitely do-able.

The hose that is connected from the bottom box to the resonator, would that need a smoother pipe, like a silicone pipe for optimal results in the intercooler section way?

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by Si Speed 317

I'm down for looking for a box that would fit a conical filter. I can check my friends integra, but also what about the S2k airbox or the RSX? They both use conical filters I believe.

And I wish we could all meet up and figure it out. I'll try as much out as I can. I have a stock airbox in my room that is gutted and fiberglassed on the inside, I just need to figure out a way to get this all to come together.

Wow, do the S2000 and RSX use conical filters? If so, I wonder if we could utilize one of their air induction boxes? For me, the biggest stumbling block is the air induction box, because it needs to be sealed off to be able to use vacuum to help pull in the colder, denser air.

Can you check your friend's airbox? Get some measurements. Then, we need to find a conical filter that will fit within its confines. I have a friend with an RSX and could take a look at it as well. If this idea works out, there must be tons of people who have swapped out their stock intakes for SRI's and CAI's. I am sure we could find quite a stockpile.

[NitrousG35]

Originally Posted by Si Speed 317

^ I see what you mean more now. It's definitely do-able, we just have to wait until the weather is nicer. I'm leaning towards the intercooler section part only because it's better for those with bad weather conditions. This is all definitely do-able.

The hose that is connected from the bottom box to the resonator, would that need a smoother pipe, like a silicone pipe for optimal results in the intercooler section way?

Going to the lower intake where an intercooler would be positioned would also work very well. It too is a high pressure area. From a logistics standpoint, it might be easier to do than the cowl induction setup.

I have a Vibrant catalog. They have quite the list of silicone tubing in different diameters, lengths and shapes. They have some that are flared and then narrow down. Samco also has good stuff as well. Once we get the air induction box figured out, the tubing to feed into the air induction box should be relatively easy to do.

[Si Speed 317]

Originally Posted by NitrousG35

Wow, do the S2000 and RSX use conical filters? If so, I wonder if we could utilize one of their air induction boxes? For me, the biggest stumbling block is the air induction box, because it needs to be sealed off to be able to use vacuum to help pull in the colder, denser air.

Can you check your friend's airbox? Get some measurements. Then, we need to find a conical filter that will fit within its confines. I have a friend with an RSX and could take a look at it as well. If this idea works out, there must be tons of people who have swapped out their stock intakes for SRI's and CAI's. I am sure we could find quite a stockpile.

Here's an RSX-S air cleaner from an acura parts dealership website:


VVVVVVVV But I think the 2007 S2000 TAKES THE CAKE!!! VVVVVVVV


Think we're getting damn close? Put it this way, if the S2k box fits/can be fitted to the Si engine bay, all we need is a K&N OEM Replacement filter and we're getting damn good.


EDIT: Here's the K&N "drop-in" for an 07 S2k, dimensions and all K&N E-2435 - Replacement Filters, Replacement Air Filter

[NitrousG35]

Oh yeah Dan! That S2000 box would be da bomb. You could trim out the inside possibly for a larger filter, or just use it as is. Hmm, I like the inlet on it. Thanks!

As an aside, I used to do fabrication for pieces on motors. I haven't done it in quite awhile, but I wish we could get a bunch of us together and keep at it until we make something that works. For the time being, all we can do is share ideas with each other until we come up with something.

[Si Speed 317]

Np, glad to help. I told you I was thinking on doing this awhile ago. I had most of this sorted out actually ROFL. In a really old thread I made when I did my own X intake right before X debuted and started selling it, I used an S2K filter in place of the A'PEXi but I never got the box. I honestly doubt I have it, but I'm down to get a box and see what I can do with it. I have a video camera and I could message you what I've come up with and go back and forth etc. Btw where do you live? Other than infiniti and beyond lol