P2R Throttle Body Spacer FAQ's

[ErichPryde]

no. it does not void your warranty due to the Magnusson Moss warranty act. The Magnusson Moss warranty act states that in order for a dealer to blame some sort of mechanical failure on a particular aftermarket part, they have to be able to prove a connection.

so, if your spacer somehow caused your transmission to explode, the dealership would have to be able to prove the spacer was the cause in order to not replace your transmission, which would be difficult for them to do.

[Bboy_Burst]

What If They Say That The P2R TBS Gives More Horse Power, Which Causes The Driver To Drive Faster, & As A Result, Transmission Failure Occur. If The TBS Wasn't There, The Driver Wouldn't Have Driven Like That.

[ErichPryde]

I was intentionally being absurd, but to answer your question, no. they have to be able to prove a direct relationship between the failure and the aftermarket part in question. they can't say that it caused a behavior that caused a failure.

[Bboy_Burst]

So They Can't Blame It On Abuse, Right ??

[ErichPryde]

what? okay, let's back up a second and stick to the purpose of this FAQ. the throttle body spacer isn't going to void your warranty. you abusing your car has nothing to do with a throttle body spacer.

[BTRobertson]

Awesome write-up broham. :) I was pondering this mod purchase for a while and had added it/deleted some six times at CorSport because I couldn't find any real pertinent info. Excellent job. I've got the Fujita F5 SRI and I'm sure it'll fit just fine. I already bought one TBG from CorSport so I'm sure they'll throw in a second with the purchase for a discount - those guys are fantastic over there.

[OrdnanceMarine]

Great thread! Thanks for taking the time to put this in one place and explain it to Si virgins like myself. This is on my list of "to do" mods but I have one question:

Why are two insulated gaskets needed? Is it because you cannot reuse the OEM fiber gasket that currently sits between the IM and TB? I understand you want to keep the TB (which receives hot coolant) isolated from the IM if you've installed the IMG, otherwise you'd be heating the IM via the TB, defeating the whole point of the IMG.

In other words I'm curious if you can just go IM:OEM TB Gasket:P2R Spacer:P2R Gasket:TB.

It's only a $20 difference, so I'm not concerned about that aspect but I want to figure out the reason behind the two-gasket method.

[bizzybearfigiblue]

OEM gaskets shouldn't be reused... that's one reason... the other would be the bolts that are sent with the spacer are tested with the whole setup i.e: TBG/TBS/TBG... and if u take out the two TBG u are now about 1/4" shorter which means the bolts might have to be cut to fit...

[OhondaU]

You could always purchase AN bolts from an aircraft supplier like Aircraft Spruce. They come in a wide assortment of sizes usually in 1/16 inch increments in length as well.

As far as the spacer actually increasing throttle response, that is unlikely as you are increasing the throttled volume (minutely) and therefore the distance the pressure wave has to travel from the butterfly to the valve. Any power increases are most likely seen from the stabilizing effect of the "tunnel" created by the spacer. It would let the airflow return to less turbulent state before entering the plenum. This would improve the plenum filling speed and hence it's efficiency.

Not trying to be argumentative, just correct the whole "bigger volume" theory. The extra volume is at best a side effect. You could slightly decrease the main body of the plenum to counter-act the volume increase from the spacer and you would still see a gain.

Intake harmonics is a very tricky and complex subject and its never as simple as just increasing the volume. A lot more interactions going on here. Also, the need for a "high temp gasket" between the throttle body and plenum is crap. The plenum has a much larger surface area and is in contact with something much hotter (the head). If the "high temp" gasket costs more than the regular one, tell them to blow it out their @ss. That is not to say that a high temp gasket between the head and the intake wouldn't be a good idea, just of negligible use between the plenum and throttle body.

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by OhondaU

As far as the spacer actually increasing throttle response, that is unlikely as you are increasing the throttled volume (minutely) and therefore the distance the pressure wave has to travel from the butterfly to the valve. Any power increases are most likely seen from the stabilizing effect of the "tunnel" created by the spacer. It would let the airflow return to less turbulent state before entering the plenum. This would improve the plenum filling speed and hence it's efficiency.

Not trying to be argumentative, just correct the whole "bigger volume" theory. The extra volume is at best a side effect. You could slightly decrease the main body of the plenum to counter-act the volume increase from the spacer and you would still see a gain.

Intake harmonics is a very tricky and complex subject and its never as simple as just increasing the volume. A lot more interactions going on here. Also, the need for a "high temp gasket" between the throttle body and plenum is crap. The plenum has a much larger surface area and is in contact with something much hotter (the head). If the "high temp" gasket costs more than the regular one, tell them to blow it out their @ss. That is not to say that a high temp gasket between the head and the intake wouldn't be a good idea, just of negligible use between the plenum and throttle body.

even tho throttle response is "unlikely" as u put it, it is there nonetheless... u will feel a better response with this mod...

the gasket part i'm gonna have to disagree with... if u get both the IMG and the TBG u will notice a difference in intake temps... i can't give a number b/c i didn't take readings b4 & after... but u can definitely feel to the touch the difference...

[firstsi]

i love mine, best money i ever spent

but the 2nd tbg is redundant if you are using an img

[OhondaU]

I would urge you to separate transient response from a linear increase in power.

I have run many tests (with a full data acquisition system) on engines in race conditions. Increasing throttled volume has ALWAYS decreased the TIME from throttle actuation to RPM change. However, the rate at which the RPMs increase once the RPMs do begin to change may be higher. So much higher that after as little as .3-.5 seconds the larger plenum would be at a higher RPM, but it had a longer initial delay.

Throttle response is the time between throttle actuation and the appropriate change in engine behaviour, not the amount of change.

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by firstsi

i love mine, best money i ever spent

but the 2nd tbg is redundant if you are using an img

believe it or not the second one helps too... unless u have the coolant bypass mod done...

[firstsi]

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

believe it or not the second one helps too... unless u have the coolant bypass mod done...

i do and was wondering if one tbg was really helping

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by OhondaU

I would urge you to separate transient response from a linear increase in power.

I have run many tests (with a full data acquisition system) on engines in race conditions. Increasing throttled volume has ALWAYS decreased the TIME from throttle actuation to RPM change. However, the rate at which the RPMs increase once the RPMs do begin to change may be higher. So much higher that after as little as .3-.5 seconds the larger plenum would be at a higher RPM, but it had a longer initial delay.

Throttle response is the time between throttle actuation and the appropriate change in engine behaviour, not the amount of change.

i can't understand what u just said... but IMO w/o any tests and just driving u feel the response difference on the butt-dyno...

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by firstsi

i do and was wondering if one tbg was really helping

well either way u would need another gasket b/c there's only one to begin with... i can't say how much it helps b/c i don't have the bypass... but every little thing does add up...

i.e: dyno after IMG showed an increase in almost 1.5hp... and that's just a small gasket...

[OhondaU]

Ok think of it this way...

1. You tell me to jump. I instantly take a little hop. That was a FAST response.

2. You tell me to jump again. I wait a little longer to crouch down and LEAP into the air. That was a LARGE response, but slower.

Basically making the throttled volume (volume between the throttle body and the intake valve) larger will give you the second result.

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by OhondaU

Ok think of it this way...

1. You tell me to jump. I instantly take a little hop. That was a FAST response.

2. You tell me to jump again. I wait a little longer to crouch down and LEAP into the air. That was a LARGE response, but slower.

Basically making the throttled volume (volume between the throttle body and the intake valve) larger will give you the second result.

that was a good analogy... i figured out what u were saying after i posted and reread what u posted...

that's exactly what i came up with... glad we're on the same page...


ok so basically it's like the b/c stock the takes a dip then shoots up making it feel like u have a very strong curve... unlike the reflash that smooths this out so u don't feel it b/c it doesn't have the dip b4 , right??

[volksi]

I love engineers!

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted by firstsi

i love mine, best money i ever spent

but the 2nd tbg is redundant if you are using an img

Makes sense to me since your IM is isolated from the head with the IMG and your heated throttle body (assuming no coolant bypass) with the gasket between the spacer and TB, essentially making the IM and spacer one connected hunk of Al.