hondata reflash and your warranty

[aki]

Hondata won't automatically void your warranty... nobody is arguing that KidnKorner. The argument is that if you use Hondata for its intended purpose--shifting at 8600 to maximize power--then Honda will void warranty for th engine. If you don't take the revs past 8k then that kinda defeats a lot of the purpose of getting one to begin with.

Even if you were to swap the ECU for a new one, it'd be suspicious. Why? Because Honda will question why the ECU is completely blank, and has no data of being driven.

I can think of one crazy solution that works, lol:

a) say you've blown your engine while hitting 8500 RPM
b) swap your reflashed ECU from your broken car into an Si that drives fine
c) have that car driven for a couple hundred miles (ECU records irregular habits only up to 20 miles, or so they say, but drive more just to be safe)
d) RPM spike gets erased from ECU memory
e) Put back ECU into your car. Take to Honda, complain that car blew its engine while cruising on the highway
f) Honda sees no flags raised from ECU, replaces engine under warranty.

[2.0si007]

aki i like all of what you wrote. but i wonder does the ecu match the vin for each different si? hmm

[udumkid]

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

No, the presence alone is not grounds for warranty denial, and it's illegal to void a new car warranty.

Honda-Tech.com: Honda Civic (2006 - Current): voiding my warranty..

Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact - For Dummies

Sema.Org

From Hondata.com:

Any increase in RPM limit is at your own risk. If you suffer engine damage that is related to excessive revs Honda / Acura will not cover your warranty. Valve-piston contact, which typically occurs at 10,000 RPM is the result of a miss-shift.


Ps- there is ALOT of sub items that are tied to the Ecu, so if the dealership wants to they can void ANYTHING thats tied to the ecu.

[aki]

Originally Posted by 2.0si007

aki i like all of what you wrote. but i wonder does the ecu match the vin for each different si? hmm

I think the ECU has to match the key and that's it, but I'm not sure. If I stole cars for a living or something I'd know =P

But yeah, throwing a rod at 8200+ RPM = guaranteed warranty denial.

[2.0si007]

crazy but might work but has to be same year and fa5 to fa5 or fg to fg. cause when you put the key in it throws codes about three different ones not at same time i think. lmao iam just thinking.

[udumkid]

Originally Posted by aki

I think the ECU has to match the key and that's it, but I'm not sure. If I stole cars for a living or something I'd know =P

But yeah, throwing a rod at 8200+ RPM = guaranteed warranty denial.

HDS will solve the vin problem once you switch out the ecu. The immobilizer system is in the ecu, once you try to replce "the ecu" the system(hds) will ask you for a ecu#.

[KidnKorner]

Originally Posted by udumkid

From Hondata.com:

Any increase in RPM limit is at your own risk. If you suffer engine damage that is related to excessive revs Honda / Acura will not cover your warranty. Valve-piston contact, which typically occurs at 10,000 RPM is the result of a miss-shift.[/size]


Ps- there is ALOT of sub items that are tied to the Ecu, so if the dealership wants to they can void ANYTHING thats tied to the ecu.

I agree with you, so why did you quote me? Reflash or not what manufacturer will cover damaged from driver error (over revved engine)? You stated that the dealer can void anything they want. My question to you how can a dealer void a warranty it didn't issue. The dealer is acting as an agent for American Honda who is the one making the calls. As I have stated before, the part must have caused or contributed to the cause for which warranty claim is sought.

The dealer diagnosis the problem, if its questionable they check with a zone rep and or someone in some office at American Honda. If they tell you your warranty claim is denied that decision is coming American Honda. Worst case scenario they put a warranty block on certain components (like GM did to me on my drive train). As I said before the dealer has no authority to void a warranty. Under a few conditions is a new car warranty voidable; gross negligence, abuse and finally competition. I have seen some warranties denied because of mechanical failure of the odometer, but thats obvious.

[udumkid]

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

I agree with you, so why did you quote me? Reflash or not what manufacturer will cover damaged from driver error (over revved engine)? You stated that the dealer can void anything they want..

As stated in my post "from hondata.com"

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

My question to you how can a dealer void a warranty it didn't issue. The dealer is acting as an agent for American Honda who is the one making the calls. As I have stated before, the part must have caused or contributed to the cause for which warranty claim is sought. .

You do know that the tech acts like a detective for Honda right? Also how much knowledge do you have with hondas new system/electrical/ecu?

A little test for you:
2004 acord v6 auto'. comes with a complaint of the of the car not able to shift from "P" to any other gears even tho the brake pedal is press, whats the proper trouble shoot of this procedure?

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

The dealer diagnosis the problem, if its questionable they check with a zone rep and or someone in some office at American Honda. .

Not true, we do our own invetigation. We can see what has been abuse by just loking at the part/sytem.

FYI:

Did you know certain cell phone chargers keep on blowing fuses on cars not due to the manufactures faukt, but by the chargers fault>?

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

If they tell you your warranty claim is denied that decision is coming American Honda. Worst case scenario they put a warranty block on certain components (like GM did to me on my drive train). As I said before the dealer has no authority to void a warranty. Under a few conditions is a new car warranty voidable; gross negligence, abuse and finally competition. I have seen some warranties denied because of mechanical failure of the odometer, but thats obvious.

Go ahead an try, better yet stick something in your intake and let it get sucked in and stock in the intake valves, then let the dealer check the car out. See if they would cover it under warranty. Go ahead and try since you are soo certain that is hondas decision,not the dealership

[monto]

Ha..Ha.. I like it when I see, that I'm not the only one that find this Kid's quotes a little bit off.You go Udum.

[Demo22]

so what if i buy the ecu and then on the long run i want to put the stock ecu back would hondata give me on or would i have to but it from the dealer....

[cruncherjf1]

does the hondata reflash not allow you to shut off the tracktion control?

[hondaonchrome]

Originally Posted by CaliGuy

Good info! Exactly what I have said in the past on this topic (can't find the old threads).

There have been 2 or 3 members on this site who have damaged their engines (and had the reflash) and the claims were denied.

No matter what Hondata says this CAN void part of your warranty (engine, possibly electrical, etc). When you mod your car YOU take the responsibility for those mods and what damage they might cause to your vehicle.

Under the law (Moss-Magnussen Warranty Act) a warranty claim cannot be voided unless the dealer can prove that the damage was caused by the mod. The problem is that it's easy to say that x mod caused the damage and hard to disprove it (read: lawsuit involving expensive experts, etc)

IMO the riskiest mods (as far as warranty) are the reflash and FI

I know when i took my car to the dealer they voided my warranty soon as they seen the hondata img on my car.....Is this right or could i fight this????

Oh yea and yes my car is still sitting, lonely under a car cover since july..

[KidnKorner]

Originally Posted by hondaonchrome

I know when i took my car to the dealer they voided my warranty soon as they seen the hondata img on my car.....Is this right or could i fight this????

Oh yea and yes my car is still sitting, lonely under a car cover since july..

1st. Its illegal to void a new car warranty, they can only deny the warranty claim. There is, however, such a thing as warranty block, and it can be levied against certain components of your vehicle, usually placed on drive train components or the entire drive train of the vehicle.People often view this as a complete void of the new car warranty.

A warranty block was placed on a 2000 GM vehicle I once owned, it didn't stop me from getting various components of my vehicle serviced under warranty. Eg, Cracked dash, sagging suspension, blistered paint.

2nd. The only conditions a new car warranty is voidable is in the case of motor sport competition, racing, gross negligence, and abuse.

3rd. The presence of a your gasket alone is not grounds for anything, they have to investigate the issue that caused the problem for which the warranty claim was sought. Simply to deny your claim because you opted for a NON Honda product is what the Magnuson moss warranty act was based on originally. It's illegal. One could argue what if you used one from Mr. Gasket? I had mine installed at my Honda dealer and they thought it was cool. They also can't say you have no warranty because they saw the gasket when you came in for an oil change or some other maintanence issue.

There are many resources mentioned here as well as a plethora of information on the web that can help people fight for their rights.

Unfortunately people often lay down in events like this simply because they don't want to spend the money. If you think about it either road you take is going to cost you money. If you have serious questions or concerns I suggest contacting legal council specializing in this area. I did and won against GM. I suggest contacting attorneys who deal with lemon law.

As far as Hondata reflash goes, as I always state, show me a warranty claim that was denied relating to anything other than engine over revs.

Thus far nobody has come forward with a warranty issue involving the Hondata reflash that wasn't an over rev issue.

[Shinobi]

this is my opinion only, but i think if you're worried about your warranty you shouldn't even be modding your car. i always mod my cars with the thought that if anything goes wrong it's going to be coming from my pocket. i know what the warranty says but is it really worth fighting with honda about a $6000 motor? Time costs money, lawyers cost money, all the professional evidence you're going to have to muscle up to take on a corpation is money, all that for a $6k motor? If I got a reflash (emphasis on the "I") and blew my motor pushing it to the limits I would just save up and rebuild it with better after market internals for a faster car. Because that was the purpose of getting the reflash or "mods" to begin with, to get a faster car out of it. Like the old saying goes, "Don't play with fire it you're afraid to get burned."

[BTRobertson]

Uh, not to add to the fire here because I'm new to the whole reflash issue, but what about the fact that the power gain between 8,000 to 8,600 RPMs is negligible at best? Sure, revving that high might earn you some extra time to shift as you string out each gear, but the powerband of the engine occurs far below the rev limit in the first place. Without engine mods like cams or new pistons, etc, what need is there for the Si to rev that high anyway?

Why do I ask this? Well, because Honda Tuning magazine says this in the Feb/March 2008 issue (page 88 "Wrenchin'" section) where they tested a 2006 Si Coupe with the Hondata ECU reflash - mods included AEM cold intake, DC race header, and DC race exhaust. They got 30 horsepower, safely. Here's the quote about the rev limit increase:

"Third, Hondata also raises the rev limit from 8,000 to 8,600 rpm. Right now this change makes little difference since our power difference at the top end is negligible. We suspect swapping in a set of '06 TSX cams may prove different though. The added lift and duration that both the intake and exhaust cams possess should increase our potentional for top-end power a bit. For now, our power gains remain in the 4,500 to 6,000 rpm zone, which is after all a reasonable place to spend a lot of time at, especially since this is a daily driver."

Okay, there's the quote direct from a test on a new Civic Si with mods with the ECU reflash from Hondata. So my question is this: if you're not racing your car and haven't swapped out the necessary parts in order for the engine to handle the increased RPMs, then why are you revving your car beyond the limit in the first place? I don't even like getting it near 8,000 as it is, let alone getting it up to 9 or 10k for crying out loud. No warranty would cover such madness, with or without an ECU reflash. :)

[beezy06fg2]

Ok maybe this is a dumb question and I feel like I should know the answer but,how are we able to over-rev if both the stock ecu and the reflash have rev limiters??I thought that was the reason for the rev limiters?

[Jardiniboy]

Originally Posted by beezy06fg2

Ok maybe this is a dumb question and I feel like I should know the answer but,how are we able to over-rev if both the stock ecu and the reflash have rev limiters??I thought that was the reason for the rev limiters?

Miss-shift. Shifting into the wrong gear.

[beezy06fg2]

Oh ok,the way everyone was talking I thought if you mis shift with the reflash you WILL blow your motor,but I guess you can overrev/misshift without the reflash?
Is it easier to blow your motor misshifting with the reflash or is it about the same as stock?

[Jardiniboy]

Originally Posted by beezy06fg2

Oh ok,the way everyone was talking I thought if you mis shift with the reflash you WILL blow your motor,but I guess you can overrev/misshift without the reflash?
Is it easier to blow your motor misshifting with the reflash or is it about the same as stock?

Misshift is the same, with reflash or with out. You can take your car to 9K if you want by misshifting.

The the thing is what everyone is concerned about with the reflash is that if you have a bent valve they could hook it up to the computer to see what happened. If they see that your car was hitting above 8200, they (Honda) would void your warranty, seeing that your ecu has been modified/tampered with.

[beezy06fg2]

^Thanks for the info,it cleared it all up for me