considerin hondata...questions

[Stealthcivic]

Ok bros,
I am considering hondata, my si is all stock, i don't think intake is worth modifying for such tiny gains, so I would consider a header and hondata reflash, just don't know if I should do this ecu reflash, I don't want to have to buy another clutch, lose gas mileage, get tires sooner, or have my car too loud! But, I really do want the mid-range gains that hondata gives us! I know I need somethin such as at least an intake, header, exaust, for hondata to work. So, I am considering just gettin the header, or waiting for another header to come out for our cars, and then getting the hondata reflash, with just the header as my mod. I really would like to wait for k-pro too. So, I just want advice on whether I should continue on with my desire for the ecu reflash. Thanks.

[MarcDavid]

Originally Posted by Stealthcivic

Ok bros,
I am considering hondata, my si is all stock, i don't think intake is worth modifying for such tiny gains, so I would consider a header and hondata reflash, just don't know if I should do this ecu reflash, I don't want to have to buy another clutch, lose gas mileage, get tires sooner, or have my car too loud! But, I really do want the mid-range gains that hondata gives us! I know I need somethin such as at least an intake, header, exaust, for hondata to work. So, I am considering just gettin the header, or waiting for another header to come out for our cars, and then getting the hondata reflash, with just the header as my mod. I really would like to wait for k-pro too. So, I just want advice on whether I should continue on with my desire for the ecu reflash. Thanks.

I'm just going for Race Header and Exhaust with the reflash. I am not purchasing a SRI or CAI until <s>comptech</s> or icebox comes out with a nice oem replacement. H/E/Flash should yield positive gains where you want it.

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by Stealthcivic

Ok bros,
I am considering hondata, my si is all stock, i don't think intake is worth modifying for such tiny gains, so I would consider a header and hondata reflash, just don't know if I should do this ecu reflash, I don't want to have to buy another clutch, lose gas mileage, get tires sooner, or have my car too loud! But, I really do want the mid-range gains that hondata gives us! I know I need somethin such as at least an intake, header, exaust, for hondata to work. So, I am considering just gettin the header, or waiting for another header to come out for our cars, and then getting the hondata reflash, with just the header as my mod. I really would like to wait for k-pro too. So, I just want advice on whether I should continue on with my desire for the ecu reflash. Thanks.

Nope, don't do it. Why get the reflash if it actually will hurt your performance since you wont have the minimum requirements to give you those gains. Personally I think the intake isn't a tiny gain. Upgrading to an Injen Cai alone without an exhaust mod would gain you about 13HP and app.
7lbs of torque. Adding a free flowing exhaust will further enhance your overall performance. I would do those mods first before even remotely thinking about a Hondadata reflash which in my opinion is a total waste of money if you are not doing the mods that are required to realize a gain.

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by MarcDavid

I'm just going for Race Header and Exhaust with the reflash. I am not purchasing a SRI or CAI until comptech or icebox comes out with a nice oem replacement. H/E/Flash should yield positive gains where you want it.

Well, you will have to wait a loooong time since Comptech is out of business and the Icebox project has been scrubbed. Go for the Injen Cai.
Best performance under the Intakes available today. Forget an SRI since it will only make it louder without much or any performance gain.

[MarcDavid]

Hondata's website says you must have a minimum of intake OR header. So you can go with a reflash w/o intake as long as you have a header.

[Stealthcivic]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

Nope, don't do it. Why get the reflash if it actually will hurt your performance since you wont have the minimum requirements to give you those gains. Personally I think the intake isn't a tiny gain. Upgrading to an Injen Cai alone without an exhaust mod would gain you about 13HP and app.
7lbs of torque. Adding a free flowing exhaust will further enhance your overall performance. I would do those mods first before even remotely thinking about a Hondadata reflash which in my opinion is a total waste of money if you are not doing the mods that are required to realize a gain.

Well bro, I am not going to get the reflash until I do a mod man. I know it is a waste to get hondata with no mods...I was saying I would just get a header...I don't want an exaust, but..........

[MarcDavid]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

Well, you will have to wait a loooong time since Comtech is out of business and the Icebox project has been scrubbed. Go for the Injen Cai.
Best performance under the Intakes available today. Forget an SRI since it will only make it louder without much or any performance gain.

Yeah I keep forgetting comptech closed. I think im done with injen / aem quality headers. I've been down that path for years. I'm waiting on the nice **** to come out. Mugen anyone . (please lets not start the intake argument again)

[MarcDavid]

Originally Posted by Stealthcivic

Well bro, I am not going to get the reflash until I do a mod man. I know it is a waste to get hondata with no mods...I was saying I would just get a header...I don't want an exaust, but..........

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by Stealthcivic

Well bro, I am not going to get the reflash until I do a mod man. I know it is a waste to get hondata with no mods...I was saying I would just get a header...I don't want an exaust, but..........

Okay, I don't understand that statement. You do want a header but you don't want an exhaust? Do you realize that a header is part of the exhaust system. Further more did you know your Si already had a header?!
It is a shorty header but nevertheless a header and not just an exhaust manifold. If you do get a header (I would recommend the Vibrant header and Cat combo that is going to be out real soon) I wouldn't recommend using the stock cat back since you will be defeating the purpose of the header in freeing up back pressure. The stock cat back is pretty restrictive. If you don't want it too loud I would suggest a Greddy SP2 or a APEXIs WS II system. Those are about the quietest cat backs out there which will still gain you some ponies. I would still invest in an intake whatever it may be.
If you look at your stock intake it is the most involved tangeled mess you have ever seen. Big old ugly box on top going to tubing leading down to the front bumper where it goes into another box called the resonator and then exits into a small opening. You are choking your car if you are putting on a "raceheader" and not letting it breathe. Sure you can do it but why?
If you want to keep the car stock just leave it alone and don't worry about a header and the hondadata relflash. Just put in a ZEX Nitrous kit and use it with your stock set up. You can be stealthy and stock when you want to and get a noticable kick when you want it That mod will give you the best of both worlds and a noticable gain in feelable performance. Plus it is cheaper than a hondadata reflash

But it's your car and you can do what you want to with it. I just don't understand your logic if there is any.

[Stealthcivic]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

Okay, I don't understand that statement. You do want a header but you don't want an exhaust? Do you realize that a header is part of the exhaust system. Further more did you know your Si already had a header?!
It is a shorty header but nevertheless a header and not just an exhaust manifold. If you do get a header (I would recommend the Vibrant header and Cat combo that is going to be out real soon) I wouldn't recommend using the stock cat back since you will be defeating the purpose of the header in freeing up back pressure. The stock cat back is pretty restrictive. If you don't want it too loud I would suggest a Greddy SP2 or a APEXIs WS II system. Those are about the quietest cat backs out there which will still gain you some ponies. I would still invest in an intake whatever it may be.
If you look at your stock intake it is the most involved tangeled mess you have ever seen. Big old ugly box on top going to tubing leading down to the front bumper where it goes into another box called the resonator and then exits into a small opening. You are choking your car if you are putting on a "raceheader" and not letting it breathe. Sure you can do it but why?
If you want to keep the car stock just leave it alone and don't worry about a header and the hondadata relflash. Just put in a ZEX Nitrous kit and use it with your stock set up. You can be stealthy and stock when you want to and get a noticable kick when you want it That mod will give you the best of both worlds and a noticable gain in feelable performance. Plus it is cheaper than a hondadata reflash

But it's your car and you can do what you want to with it. I just don't understand your logic if there is any.

Ok man, here is my logic and thank you for the words of wisdom...I don't really have experience with this (mods beside intakes, all I did is have an intake on my old civic..) so I am clueless about headers, exaust, etc...hondata...I just learn on 8th gen about hondata and k-pro (but still don't know what the hell k-pro is either )
Yes, I do know my civic has a header , I just don't know anything about it...but you have pointed out the header is part of the exaust,
My logic is that I want the car to remain close to stock , especially in exterior appearance, but I want more hp and torque mid-range. But, my question is isn't the stock header and stock exaust pretty good, I mean how much better flow will we get with aftermarket ? I thought the si was designed for performance. And, I thought the stock intake system is awesome
built into the fender wall, that is much better than any sri soaking up all the heat in the bay - and I live in a warm climate! But, if I do get I/H/E and reflash, I appreciate the quiet exaust you told me about. I also wouldn't have a clue about which header - you mentioned vibrant, 4-2 or 4-1? And, a regular header or race header ? I don't want my si too loud. I think it sounds awesome stock the way it is tuned. And, where I live there is no inspection, so I can get rid of my cat coverter, or get a high flow cat...which I am clueless about too bro , so thanks for the tips ..........

[Stealthcivic]

If you want to keep the car stock just leave it alone and don't worry about a header and the hondadata relflash. Just put in a ZEX Nitrous kit and use it with your stock set up. You can be stealthy and stock when you want to and get a noticable kick when you want it

This sounds cool, I have no idea what or how to use it, but I will search, thanks bro

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by Stealthcivic

Ok man, here is my logic and thank you for the words of wisdom...I don't really have experience with this (mods beside intakes, all I did is have an intake on my old civic..) so I am clueless about headers, exaust, etc...hondata...I just learn on 8th gen about hondata and k-pro (but still don't know what the hell k-pro is either )
Yes, I do know my civic has a header , I just don't know anything about it...but you have pointed out the header is part of the exaust,
My logic is that I want the car to remain close to stock , especially in exterior appearance, but I want more hp and torque mid-range. But, my question is isn't the stock header and stock exaust pretty good, I mean how much better flow will we get with aftermarket ? I thought the si was designed for performance. And, I thought the stock intake system is awesome
built into the fender wall, that is much better than any sri soaking up all the heat in the bay - and I live in a warm climate! But, if I do get I/H/E and reflash, I appreciate the quiet exaust you told me about. I also wouldn't have a clue about which header - you mentioned vibrant, 4-2 or 4-1? And, a regular header or race header ? I don't want my si too loud. I think it sounds awesome stock the way it is tuned. And, where I live there is no inspection, so I can get rid of my cat coverter, or get a high flow cat...which I am clueless about too bro , so thanks for the tips ..........

Seems you want to have your cake and eat it too

Sure the stock set up isn't bad but where is the fun in leaving it stock?

That's what the hobby of modding is all about. It's to really make the car your own according to your likes and dislikes. The options are endless and more stuff is getting released for our cars every day. (okay every few months or so ) If you don't have to worry about emissions or inspections then you have it made. Actually where I live we don't have to worry about such things either, yet.
Just imagine if you like the way your exhaust sounds now, how you will like the exhaust or your engine when it gets an even more agressive rumble to it. Don't get me wrong I am not one of those people that think louder is better, just the opposite but I like an exhaust that has a nice deep tone to it and an agressive roar then you hit it
There are a lot of cat back systems out there that will accomplish this task and still wont break windows and pi$$ off neighbors when you drive through your neighborhood.

I just don't know why you would want to put on a Race header if you are not willing to change your cat back. Sure you will eliminate the cat and it will get louder just by doing that but then it hits the bottleneck of your 2 inch cat back where you could gain a lot more ponies if you open that up to a 2.5 inch or at least a 60mm system (2.36inch).

The Vibrant Header and Cat Combo will be released soon and I will go with that combo once it hits the markt. It's a 4-2-1 design that comes with a Cat or a plain spacer pipe to connect to your cat back. The choice is yours. I rather keep it legal and keep a free flow cat in there which will also prevent throwing CEL's (Check engine lights). I already have the Vibrant Cat Back exhaust and it does should very sweet. Close to stock in loudness at idle (just deeper), a nice rumble at normal speeds and a very agressive growl once you get on it. I highly recommend this exhaust. It has the looks, quality and sound I was looking for.
Now it's not the quietest exhaust out there but by far not the loudest either. Again if you want quiet you can go with the Greddy Sp2 or APEXIs WS 2 systems. They are the quietest cat backs on the market for the Si.

If you want to keep it close to stock and gain some ponies I would at least recommend a K&N drop in filter, perhaps a Random Technology Free Flowing Cat, a set of NST Pullies and at least the HFP Performance Muffler.

Those mods would probably would suit you best.
Here are the mods I have done to my car so far and some future mods coming up

What I did to my car so far: Injen Cold Air Intake, Vibrant Cat Back Exhaust, Silverstar bulbs, TWM Short Shifter, Base and Cable Bushings,
ZEX 75 shot Nitrous system, HFP Performance Lowering Springs,
Progress 22mm Rear Sway Bar, switched Manual transmission fluid to
Royal Purple Synchromax, switched to Royal Purple 5W30 Synthetic motor oil with Bosch Filter, 20% tint all around.

Future Mods:

NST Pulley set
Vibrant Race Header and Cat combo.
Zex Purge Valve and Bottle Heater
Koni FSD shocks and struts.

[Freq18hz]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

Nope, don't do it. Why get the reflash if it actually will hurt your performance since you wont have the minimum requirements to give you those gains. Personally I think the intake isn't a tiny gain. Upgrading to an Injen Cai alone without an exhaust mod would gain you about 13HP and app.
7lbs of torque. Adding a free flowing exhaust will further enhance your overall performance. I would do those mods first before even remotely thinking about a Hondadata reflash which in my opinion is a total waste of money if you are not doing the mods that are required to realize a gain.

Injen CAI gives approx. 3-5hp.

-Freq

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by Freq18hz

Injen CAI gives approx. 3-5hp.

-Freq

BHUHAHAHAHA maybe in your car. Someone on here did a Dynorun before and after and the Injen Cai netted him 13.8 HP and 7.8 lbs of torque. It is so far the best CAI out there with the most gain in both HP and torque.
You better do some research before you post such nonsense.

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

BHUHAHAHAHA maybe in your car. Someone on here did a Dynorun before and after and the Injen Cai netted him 13.8 HP and 7.8 lbs of torque. It is so far the best CAI out there with the most gain in both HP and torque.
You better do some research before you post such nonsense.

Well, according to my ScanguageII even the Injen CAI (we got hold of one today finally) is seeing intake air temps 8 degrees HOTTER than stock and that's while the car is moving. Let's face it, metal is an excellent heat conductor and it just soaks up the underhood heat. The CAI we tested last week was even worse seeing intake temps 13-18 degrees warmer which is exactly the same as just removing the rubber elbow.

Certainly I am not accounting for airflow, but in my experience I don't see how airflow can make up for the higher intake air temps. I say that apart from looks and sound, both the CAI and the SRI are total wastes of money in terms of producing HP gains.

While that certainly may not be true for all cars, I think what it really shows is how good of a job Honda did on the intake end of this car. The exhaust end, where all your emissions controls are, is another story. It looks like even going to a 70mm exhaust still shows gains so I would say put your money into a race header (boy that Buddy Club piece sure is pretty) and as free flowing an exhaust as your ears and significant other can stand. Then reflash and you should have a pretty quick flexible car that looks totally stock underhood (which I like).

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

Well, according to my ScanguageII even the Injen CAI (we got hold of one today finally) is seeing intake air temps 8 degrees HOTTER than stock and that's while the car is moving. Let's face it, metal is an excellent heat conductor and it just soaks up the underhood heat. The CAI we tested last week was even worse seeing intake temps 13-18 degrees warmer which is exactly the same as just removing the rubber elbow.

Certainly I am not accounting for airflow, but in my experience I don't see how airflow can make up for the higher intake air temps. I say that apart from looks and sound, both the CAI and the SRI are total wastes of money in terms of producing HP gains.

While that certainly may not be true for all cars, I think what it really shows is how good of a job Honda did on the intake end of this car. The exhaust end, where all your emissions controls are, is another story. It looks like even going to a 70mm exhaust still shows gains so I would say put your money into a race header (boy that Buddy Club piece sure is pretty) and as free flowing an exhaust as your ears and significant other can stand. Then reflash and you should have a pretty quick flexible car that looks totally stock underhood (which I like).

Where exactly are you taking these alleged measurements? There is no way the Injen Cai would measure higher temps then the stock unit since most of the Cai's tubing isn't even in the enginecompartment. It connects at the Throttlebody via a Silicone sleeve and then makes an immediate 90 degree turn downward toward the bumper area. And while moving, it is constantly being cooled down. And Yes airflow does make a difference. With the stock intake it has to travel through a snorkel into the resonator up through the fender plastic tubing into the airbox into some more tubing and finally into the throttlebody. With the Injen Cai it is a much more direct route and it has been Dynoproven to free up over 13 HP and almost 8 lbs of torque.

Sorry dude you better recalibrate your fancy little scantool

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

Where exactally are you taking these alleged measurements? There is no way the Injen Cai would meassure higher temps then the stock unit since most of the Cai's tubing isn't even in the enginecompartment. It connects at the Throttlebody via a Silicone sleave and then makes and immediate 90 degree turn downward toward the bumper area. And while moving it is constantly being cooled down. And Yes airflow does make a difference. With the stock intake it has to travel through a snorkel into the resonator up through the fender plastic tubing into the airbox into some more tubing and finally into the throttlebody. With the Injen Cai it is a much more direct route and it has been Dynoproven to free up over 13 HP and almost 8 lbs of torque.

Sorry dude you better recalibrate your fancy little scantool

This information is taken right out of the OBDII. Sorry to disappoint you if you have bought into the SRI CAI hype. There is nothing magical here and it's pretty ignorant to say you know any different. The temp reading comes right from the car's own air intake temperature sensor so it has ZERO to do with the calibration of the SGII. I guess Honda doesn't know how to make those?

The majority of the piping of the Injen CAI sits directly behind the radiator! DUH!

Show me the dyno done by an independent source where an Injen gains the HP you are talking about on our car and where the ONLY difference between the two dyno runs is the Injen CAI. I won't be holding my breath.

(Some people get all emotional about car parts!! Too funny.)

http://www.scangauge.com/

[reaper702]

what?! the injen cai loses power compared to the stock intake AND pulls in hotter air?! i never knew that...

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by reaper702

what?! the injen cai loses power compared to the stock intake AND pulls in hotter air?! i never knew that...

I can't say I know for sure it loses power. But I can definitely say it pulls in hotter air.

[TampaSi07]

Here is a stock dyno done just today three threads down as I post this. The only mod; Injen CAI:

Injen CAI, Tein SS w/ EDFC, TWM SS & Busing

Oh look, exactly the same as a bone stock Si:


Stock Dyno Results

Now what were you saying tom1222?

(Empirical evidence and logic will beat emotion every time.)