considerin hondata...questions

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by webby

so you had no comment on the differences between these cars?

Qshooter = Red ** AEM SRI, Skunk2 70mm catback

Galaxy~Si = Blue ** Injen SRI

06BlakSi = Green ** Injen CAI

They all made virtually identical HP??? The cat is the restriction in the exhaust so I don't seeing any exhaust doing much good without removing the bottleneck.

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

http://www.fgcoupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1590

15 HP gain with Injen CAI!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I got my injen cold air installed today. I did a baseline run on the dyno and got 170.89 hp and 127.85 max torque stock. Then we installed the Cai and ran it again after the install we got these numbers- 184.22 hp and 134.60 max torque. I was not expecting 15 hp gains. Anyone else got a injen cai installed and dynoed. And it was hot in the shop too. Im in vegas.

http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0089rx.jpg


I did 2 baseline runs and then the after with the cai. The 2 baseline runs got identical numbers.

If you believe that then I think I have a bridge you may be interested in purchasing. PM me for my paypal!

[Tom1222]

Pretty colored Dynopictures don't lie. If they do then yours aren't any good either

This is not the only one out there. I haven't found the other person yet that showed similar gains. Lets face it you don't have all the facts and number are just that numbers on a sheet of paper.
If your dyno numbers and scantool figures are correct or the one above or many more like it out there doesn't really matter. You have already made up your mind what you are going to believe and I "know" that my car performs well with the Injen Cai. So whatever you say wont have any bearing on the way I feel about the Injen Cai.
So keep your car stock and be happy just don't be surprised that someday you will get your doors blown off by a proud Si owner with an Injen Cai

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

Pretty colored Dynopictures don't lie. If they do then yours aren't any good either

This is not the only one out there. I haven't found the other person yet that showed similar gains. Lets face it you don't have all the facts and number are just that numbers on a sheet of paper.
If your dyno numbers and scantool figures are correct or the one above or many more like it out there doesn't really matter. You have already made up your mind what you are going to believe and I "know" that my car performs well with the Injen Cai. So whatever you say wont have any bearing on the way I feel about the Injen Cai.
So keep your car stock and be happy just don't be surprised that someday you will get your doors blown off by a proud Si owner with an Injen Cai

You found one anomalous dyno sheet that is counter to the vast majority. The exceptions don't disprove the rule. You can chose to believe the 5% of dyno sheets that say one thing, but I'll stick with the 95% with better documentation that say another.

My car is by no means staying stock. Both myself and a friend bought Si's to travel around the south to racetracks. We both also run in POC and PCA events, myself with a Cayman S and he has a 996 GT3. I am just tired of trailering the P car around and to be honest it would hurt to write it off on the track where the Si won't.

The intake to me is really the only iffy part of the equation. A race header paired with a good exhaust incontrovertibly sees HP gains especially paired with the Hondata reflash so I am definitely going that route.

For the intake I will probably end up dyno testing a CAI anyway, but I will also test my own ram-air setup by removing the intake resonator box and using a duct from the fog lamp cutout connected via tubing to the downpipe that normally goes into the resonator. The only way to really test ram air will be via my GPS Racepak2. I may also try the BMC filter with a ram air setup that I outlined in the "F1 Intake" thread.

For braking we will use cryo-treated rotors all around, Carbotech ceramic pads, Goodridge lines, Motul RBF600 and a ducting system to the dust shields also for the front brakes from under the car using NACA ducts.

We will be using Enkei RPF-1 race wheels (light, strong, and cheap) with shaved Toyo RA-1's.

Inside will see a Sparco Evo2 seat (yeah I am a big boy, wtf am I supposed to do about that?) and a custom half cage with a Schroth 6pt to keep my snugly in place.

Suspension is still a bit up in the air at this point.

I'm just trying to show this has nothing to do with trying to save money or maintain the warranty. It's simply about what works and what does not.

[reaper702]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

If you believe that then I think I have a bridge you may be interested in purchasing. PM me for my paypal!

lol so theres your proof and you still refuse to believe it? don't know what else you need.

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by reaper702

lol so theres your proof and you still refuse to believe it? don't know what else you need.

One anomalous dyno sheet with no other information that contradicts 95% of the other dyno sheets posted on this very site does not constitute "proof."

So, are you telling me you believe there was 14hp to be had from a CAI? You think Honda left an 8% HP increase on the table when 300hp cars are becoming the norm? Give me a simple yes or no answer, do you believe that?

If you do, we can also discuss a bridge deal.

[qwerty :)]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

So, are you telling me you believe there was 14hp to be had from a CAI? You think Honda left an 8% HP increase on the table when 300hp cars are becoming the norm? Give me a simple yes or no answer, do you believe that?

If you do, we can also discuss a bridge deal.

cars under 200 hp cost less to insure

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by qwerty :)

cars under 200 hp cost less to insure

The Si isn't sold on being cheap to insure. They have the regular 1.8L cars for that. It costs me as much to insure my Si as it does my TL and I am 35, married, and have a clean driving record. The HP wars are alive and well in the sport compact market. The Si with nav is only a few thousand dollars away from a base 350Z with over 300hp or a WRX.

Either way, Honda could have still claimed 197HP and yet had it put out 8% more and since these cars are bound to get dynoed they would have had real happy customers on their hands when their cars dynoed near crank HP levels.

At this point I am just doing this:

If you guys seriously believe they left that much on the table with all their engineering might then good day to ya! I'll just go back to building Le Mans winning cars with all the other idiots like me.

[Stealthcivic]

What's up, I appreciate all the insight and debate this thread has opened up, I guess now after reading, I am considering getting a header, exaust , and the hondata reflash, I am not considering an intake too much, because I believe like Tampa, it has very very little gains........ I appreciate the info bro's and thanks Tom in Indy for your information bro...
What kind of gains would we see with just a header and an exaust alone, no hondata ?

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

One anomalous dyno sheet with no other information that contradicts 95% of the other dyno sheets posted on this very site does not constitute "proof."

So, are you telling me you believe there was 14hp to be had from a CAI? You think Honda left an 8% HP increase on the table when 300hp cars are becoming the norm? Give me a simple yes or no answer, do you believe that?

If you do, we can also discuss a bridge deal.

There are others out there as well. I am just not going to search thousands of post just to pease your need for more pretty dyno sheets.
Plus you must have slept in math. Your couple of dynosheets vs the one posted dynosheet doesn't make it 95% to 5%. Geesh
Why don't you just grow up and admit that you are wrong dude.
Or go into denial and drive your Cayman around or perhaps after buying that car you can't afford the gas for it so you have to drive the Si

[Tom1222]

Sorry Double Post. I hate when that happens.

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by Stealthcivic

What's up, I appreciate all the insight and debate this thread has opened up, I guess now after reading, I am considering getting a header, exaust , and the hondata reflash, I am not considering an intake too much, because I believe like Tampa, it has very very little gains........ I appreciate the info bro's and thanks Tom in Indy for your information bro...
What kind of gains would we see with just a header and an exaust alone, no hondata ?

That is a good question. Since most people that have done a race header/exhaust mod also changed their intake. But since you don't want to go that route why don't you do a baseline and then dyno it after your header/exhaust mod. I am sure we would be very interested in seeing results.

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

One anomalous dyno sheet with no other information that contradicts 95% of the other dyno sheets posted on this very site does not constitute "proof."

So, are you telling me you believe there was 14hp to be had from a CAI? You think Honda left an 8% HP increase on the table when 300hp cars are becoming the norm? Give me a simple yes or no answer, do you believe that?

If you do, we can also discuss a bridge deal.

Sure Honda Probably could have squeezed out a few more ponies but then they probably wouldn't have been within their emission, noise or other regulations that they need to follow. If you really looked at their intake it is the most elaborate piece or "art" I have ever seen. From the Throttlebody to an airbox then tubing into the fender down to the resonator then out to a snorkle. After the air finds its way through all that regardless of what temperature it can't be as efficient as a more direct and quicker route to the throttlebody.
You talk a good game but your bridge is pretty shaky and I would never buy it

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

Either way, Honda could have still claimed 197HP and yet had it put out 8% more and since these cars are bound to get dynoed they would have had real happy customers on their hands when their cars dynoed near crank HP levels.

At this point I am just doing this:

If you guys seriously believe they left that much on the table with all their engineering might then good day to ya! I'll just go back to building Le Mans winning cars with all the other idiots like me.

You make another great point here. The HP is really mostly measured from the factory at the crank and doesn't take the intake into consideration. So in turn you don't have 197 whp but 197 crank hp.
What you do with the intake or most other add on mods you actually free up more of the usable hp not adding to their dynoed crank HP.

[Tom1222]

Here is the thread about the Injen Cai Gain here on this site:

15 HP gained with only Injen CAI!!!!!!!!!!

Not that it will make any difference to TampaSi Cayman man but I thought the others on this thread may want to look at it.
I think it's the same guy that posted it on the other forum but nevertheless it's info on this subject.

All I can say is when I added the Injen Cai it was so far the most noticable mod as far as performance goes besides the Nitrous of course

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

You make another great point here. The HP is really mostly measured from the factory at the crank and doesn't take the intake into consideration.

Huh?? You think they run the car with no intake? The SAE standard requires them to run full emissions equipment which includes the full intake system they are going to run in the production vehicle so I have no idea where you got that from.

So in turn you don't have 197 whp but 197 crank hp.

Really?? LOL (Sarcasm)

What you do with the intake or most other add on mods you actually free up more of the usable hp not adding to their dynoed crank HP.

What on earth are you talking about? Is that some dialog from Tokyo Drift or something?

[tommyroo]

Originally Posted by Stealthcivic

What's up, I appreciate all the insight and debate this thread has opened up, I guess now after reading, I am considering getting a header, exaust , and the hondata reflash, I am not considering an intake too much, because I believe like Tampa, it has very very little gains........ I appreciate the info bro's and thanks Tom in Indy for your information bro...
What kind of gains would we see with just a header and an exaust alone, no hondata ?

Originally Posted by Tom1222

That is a good question. Since most people that have done a race header/exhaust mod also changed their intake. But since you don't want to go that route why don't you do a baseline and then dyno it after your header/exhaust mod. I am sure we would be very interested in seeing results.

I'm curious too...For selfish reasons of course.

I'm also curious what a header and high flow cat instead of an exhaust would do.

[Stealthcivic]

Me too now, Buddy Club header , with high-flow cat, and hondata, keeping stock exaust, wonder what kinds of gains, well with hondata's website dyno's I bet 25-29 hp gain....

['06Siguy]

Personally, I'd do the exhaust first, intake second and header third. Just my opinion though. I'm sure others may dissagree. I only have the CAI myself. It sounds great. I wish I could get exaust. Just not high enough on the list.

[Freq18hz]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

On the above dyno runs they are using 0 smoothing which NO ONE uses because it counts little tiny momentary spikes and will ALWAYS produce a higher number. Also, the second run is TOTALLY UNCORRECTED, but the first run is DIN (Is this dyno shop on crack? No one uses DIN!) and DIN will aways produce about a 2% lower number. In the end it looks to me like the CAI made ZERO difference when you factor in correction and smoothing.

Sure looks to me like that shop knows how to keep the customers coming back. What they are doing is VERY SHADY. They should save all their runs though and they can go back and overlay them using the SAME correction factor. Hmmm, I wonder why they didn't do that in the first place. LOL

EDIT: LMFAO I just read the dyno shop sold the guy the intake? What a bunch of assholes! They knew exactly what they were doing and that's why you don't have the overlay with the same correction factor applied. Oh well, that's one way to make a higher HP number I guess. That is so dishonest.

That was my car BTW. Here is a link to the thread with the corrected dynos using the SAME *gasp!* smoothing and correction factor!

Dyno at ProStreet Today..

FYI: I've been on this forum for a month or so now, and honestly I've never heard/seen anyone post on here that has sounded like half the douchebag you are proving to be.
You just called some really nice people, and a very helpful shop "a bunch of assholes." There are several memebers on this forum that take their cars there for tuning.
The fact is: You "logically" speak out of your ass, and make claims that you can't back up. I've posted 4 dynos of MY CAR. What have you posted?
I'm not replying to anymore of your hostile and ignorant posts.
Go back to le mans already, your shitty attitude and sucky posts are ruining it for the rest of us. Look inward and you will find the true asshole.


-Freq