considerin hondata...questions

[reaper702]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

Here is a stock dyno done just today three threads down as I post this. The only mod; Injen CAI:


Oh look, exactly the same as a bone stock Si:


Stock Dyno Results

Now what were you saying tom1222?

(Empirical evidence and logic will beat emotion every time.)

well please tell me you are not comparing two different cars, locations, dynos, etc. to prove your illogical theory that a cai get no gains...

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by reaper702

well please tell me you are not comparing two different cars, locations, dynos, etc. to prove your illogical theory that a cai get no gains...

All these dyno's correct for conditions. This is why nearly all stock Si's dyno at right around 185hp +/- 3 hp on Dynojet dyno's.

It's not like you can just slap off a CAI in 5 minutes and dyno back to back under exactly the same conditions. That isn't how this works so if dynamometers can't correct for conditions they become useless.

So if you want to prove me wrong show me the monster dyno on a dynojet where a car with just a cai improved put down 195hp. Again, I won't be holding my breath.

(sounds like someone else also spent money on the hype)

[TampaSi07]

From dynojet's site:

The software (WinPEP7) automatically corrects for altitude and atmospheric conditions to producing consistent and easily interpretable power graphs.

[reaper702]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

All these dyno's correct for conditions. This is why nearly all stock Si's dyno at right around 185hp +/- 3 hp on Dynojet dyno's.

It's not like you can just slap off a CAI in 5 minutes and dyno back to back under exactly the same conditions. That isn't how this works so if dynamometers can't correct for conditions they become useless.

So if you want to prove me wrong show me the monster dyno on a dynojet where a car with just a cai improved put down 195hp. Again, I won't be holding my breath.

(sounds like someone else also spent money on the hype)

ok, so by your reasoning, i made 195whp and 144wtq with just injen cai and skunk2 70mm catback and the cat back is the one that gained 10whp?! that one crazy exhaust!

[taffysi]

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by reaper702

ok, so by your reasoning, i made 195whp and 144wtq with just injen cai and skunk2 70mm catback and the cat back is the one that gained 10whp?! that one crazy exhaust!

I think that 70mm Skunk exhaust has provided big gains for almost everyone that has dyno'd it. The stock exhaust is VERY restrictive. I also can't comment on the synergistic effect of the two parts together. To know for sure you would have had to dyno the exhaust alone with the stock intake.

Don't get me wrong, I have also seen cases where intakes make a huge difference. Hell, just de snorking the Porsche Cayman intake is good for 5 or 6hp!!

[reaper702]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

I think that 70mm Skunk exhaust has provided big gains for almost everyone that has dyno'd it. The stock exhaust is VERY restrictive. I also can't comment on the synergistic effect of the two parts together. To know for sure you would have had to dyno the exhaust alone with the stock intake.

Don't get me wrong, I have also seen cases where intakes make a huge difference. Hell, just de snorking the Porsche Cayman intake is good for 5 or 6hp!!

lmao man i would love to prove you wrong, but i too, did not dyno after each part and i'm more than sure that someone has a before and after dyno with a cai to prove you wrong...

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by reaper702

lmao man i would love to prove you wrong, but i too, did not dyno after each part and i'm more than sure that someone has a before and after dyno with a cai to prove you wrong...

I can save you the time. I have probably done at least 100 searches on here for dyno charts (that's what I live for) and the numbers don't lie.

BTW, SAE correction will produce a lower HP number than standard correction. It corrects to a much higher air temp 17 degrees hotter than standard correction.

You can see here the difference applying various correction factors makes. You can also see that gear selection makes the biggest difference:

http://www.bishopsperformance.com/dynoinfo.htm

[webby]

Originally Posted by 06blaksi

Qshooter, Galaxy~Si and myself just had dynos done this weekend. None of us did a baseline

But here's our runs

Qshooter = Red ** AEM SRI, Skunk2 70mm catback

Galaxy~Si = Blue ** Injen SRI

06BlakSi = Green ** Injen CAI

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=30

Originally Posted by sickyute

So as everyone may know i've had the aem cai, along with other mods including the hondata reflash and hondata img....well regardless of other mods i still had the same issues you people had with the AEM CAI....
So i decided to try out the Injen CAI to see if it fixed the problems and it also had more power advertised....

Fit and Finish.


So they are both polished and the polishing looks the same.
They both have the same level of craftsmanship with Injen paying a lot more attention to detail than aem...
The adapter for the MAF is more well constructed...the end of the pipe where the filter fits is kinda bevelled.
The Injen piping is bigger at the end where the filter sits, get's small at the MAF and opens up a little bit more after on it's way to the throttle body.
Overall it's about 6 inches or more shorter than the AEM CAI.

i won't go over installation again cuz ther's enuff threads like this here....it took me about 30 mins to remove the aem and install the Injen cai...

you must cut piece of your fender lining/splash guard with both the aem and injen cai...i had already cut for the aem...but i had to cut a little bit more inward and below for the injen...hence the larger space above the injen.


the space u see above the piping was there from the AEM cai...the injen fit a little lower down so now there is a little gap above...it also fits further back so i had to cut a little inward(repost...lol).

There is no way u could install the Injen without having to cut the splash guard....NO WAY...it's a must....if u don't cut it, then u can't bolt it down in the place it needs to be bolted down...u'll have to push it forward and if u have fogs it will hit those, not to mention it will also not be secure cuz i missed ur mounting point...

The injen mounts in a better location than the AEM CAI...there is not a way it will hit against the metal under there, like my aem did(made amends by putting some foam tape there)...no worries like that with the injen if u cut the fenderwell/splashguard.

However i did have to remove a bracket...this bracket is a non important one...it hold the positive wire for the battery...it sits just to the left of the battery tray....i removed it cuz i just thought it sit waaaaay to close to the piping, any movement of the cai and they would touch...even if the cai was pretty tight and not moving i just didn't want to have to do it later.....

Also be aware of the shift linkage after it is installed....the wire leading to the positive battery pole may be in the way, and u may fell like u are having problems getting into any gear depending on the position of this wire...(makes me wonder if this is a quick cure to the shift problems some of us are having)...just get this wire completely out the way....

Hesitation
GONE!!! The is no hesitation in any gear at any RPM under any circumstance...i know too well what it feels like cuz i had it with the AEM...it's no longer!! I tried and tried to induce the hesitation and it was not there! The car responds like it should.

Power Difference
WOW....WOW....WOW...though not everyone can expect to feel it like i did....the power difference is one that u cannot ignore...it's not slight! It's there and very noticeable....My car isn't stock and i know the reflash is to blame for this ever so present feel of more power.....but it is definitely more powerful than the aem was with the reflash.
quick math....
aem 7hp and 7tq roughly....
aem with reflash and supporting mods 14hp and 13 tq roughly
that's not counting what my exhaust may have added etc.
so the reflash either added 7 on each end or doubled the production.

which leads me to this being the reason the injen is that much more powerful in the mid range.

injen 11hp and 11tq roughly
someone dynoed at 13 hp added after 2 baseline runs with the injen...
that being said...if the reflash simply adds 7 then u have 18 hp and tq added on top of what it already gave.
and if it's doubled then 22 in each category on top of what u already gained from just the intake....

moral of the story is....more power from cai will equal more power delivered from reflash...how much? i don't know...but it's a lot whatever it is!!!

and believe me when i say this....MY CAR IS DEFINATELY MORE POWERFUL WITH THE INJEN CAI THAN IT WAS WITH THE AEM AND ALL THE SUPPORTING MODS...AND IT IS NOT SLIGHT...IT IS BY A BIGGER MARGIN THAN I THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN...IT PULLS DOWN LOW, PULLS WHEN VTEC HITS AT 4500, PULLS AND PULLS HARDER THAN IT EVER DID.

needless to say..I AM IMPRESSED....and apart from the reflash this is the best change i have made to my car...period!!

No hesitation of any kind at any rpm like i said before....
No CEL...to be fair i never had a CEL with the AEM...

Sound
it is louder than the AEM...no doubt about that....the sound is about the same, probably a lil more aggressive, but not enuff to notice, but the loudness is.

word of caution...
though i have not exaggerated the feel of power from this change in mod...
i don't expect everyone to feel the same power increase i did, especially on a stock car, or without the reflash....even if u had other mods...i think the reflash is the sole reason the bump in power was so definite.

i'm soooooo happy.

this is my story and i'm sticking to it!

P.S....i know yall see that shiny black bumper in there

before on a member
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=30


after on that customer

Originally Posted by ProStreet

A customer stopped by today with his new white FA5 sedan. Beautiful car!

It was bone stock, and he wanted a Injen Cold Air intake installed, and dyno'd.

After install, he came by, and watched the dyno. The car made an impressive peak of 193.03 horsepower at the front wheels, and 142.12 torque at the front wheels. He'll come back later for tuning, and we will extract even more power.

Not bad at all for a stock civic with an intake!! A 5.0 Mustang with full exhaust, no cats, cold air, throttle body and upped timing make almost 20whp less!

[TampaSi07]

On the above dyno runs they are using 0 smoothing which NO ONE uses because it counts little tiny momentary spikes and will ALWAYS produce a higher number. Also, the second run is TOTALLY UNCORRECTED, but the first run is DIN (Is this dyno shop on crack? No one uses DIN!) and DIN will aways produce about a 2% lower number. In the end it looks to me like the CAI made ZERO difference when you factor in correction and smoothing.

Sure looks to me like that shop knows how to keep the customers coming back. What they are doing is VERY SHADY. They should save all their runs though and they can go back and overlay them using the SAME correction factor. Hmmm, I wonder why they didn't do that in the first place. LOL

EDIT: LMFAO I just read the dyno shop sold the guy the intake? What a bunch of assholes! They knew exactly what they were doing and that's why you don't have the overlay with the same correction factor applied. Oh well, that's one way to make a higher HP number I guess. That is so dishonest.

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

This information is taken right out of the OBDII. Sorry to disappoint you if you have bought into the SRI CAI hype. There is nothing magical here and it's pretty ignorant to say you know any different. The temp reading comes right from the car's own air intake temperature sensor so it has ZERO to do with the calibration of the SGII. I guess Honda doesn't know how to make those?

The majority of the piping of the Injen CAI sits directly behind the radiator! DUH!

Show me the dyno done by an independent source where an Injen gains the HP you are talking about on our car and where the ONLY difference between the two dyno runs is the Injen CAI. I won't be holding my breath.

(Some people get all emotional about car parts!! Too funny.)

http://www.scangauge.com/

Okay, I will do the search and get you the link. Now one more thing you said SRI Cai hype. Which is it? The SRI or the CAI that you tested?
The SRI will of course have a lot more heat soak than the actualy CAI.
I hope you know the parts you are testing. There is a difference between an SRI and a CAI. But maybe your little Scantool can't tell the difference

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

Okay, I will do the search and get you the link. Now one more thing you said SRI Cai hype. Which is it? The SRI or the CAI that you tested?
The SRI will of course have a lot more heat soak than the actualy CAI.
I hope you know the parts you are testing. There is a difference between an SRI and a CAI. But maybe your little Scantool can't tell the difference

We tested both and elbow on/elbow off stock. It just took longer to get our hands on a CAI equipped car. My car is still stock. All we are testing are intake temps and the ambient air temp was 80 degrees.

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

We tested both and elbow on/elbow off stock. It just took longer to get our hands on a CAI equipped car. My car is still stock. All we are testing are intake temps and the ambient air temp was 80 degrees.

Perhaps the heat from the Throttlebody warmed up your scantoolsensor and that's why you got similar readings? Heck, I don't really care, all
I know is that the Injen Cai did make a noticable difference on how the car responded and performed. At least in my seat of the pants dyno and to me that's where it counts

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

Perhaps the heat from the Throttlebody warmed up your scantoolsensor and that's why you got similar readings? Heck, I don't really care, all
I know is that the Injen Cai did make a noticable difference on how the car responded and performed. At least in my seat of the pants dyno and to me that's where it counts

Hey, people get rid of their headaches when given sugar pills. I guess all the really matters is that the headache is gone!

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

Hey, people get rid of their headaches when given sugar pills. I guess all the really matters is that the headache is gone!

Nope, my headache is still there since you're still here

[TampaSi07]

Just to reiterate; the Scangauge uses the car's OBDII to get it's readings. It plugs right into the OBD port. Honda builds in an intake temperature sensor. It is already there on all Si's. All the SGII allows you to do is see this information that the car is using from that sensor. If it were a heat soak issue as you suggested then all the intakes should show a similar temp, but they are drastically different. Also, if it were a soak issue it would mean Honda's sensor was useless.

From the Honda Si press release:

Civic Si: Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI)

The Civic Si is equipped with a Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) system. The system monitors throttle position, engine temperature, intake-manifold pressure, atmospheric pressure, exhaust-gas oxygen content, and intake-air temperature. It controls fuel delivery by multi-holed injectors mounted in the cast-aluminum intake manifold. The ECU also tracks the operation of the engine with position sensors on the crankshaft and both camshafts.

[webby]

so you had no comment on the differences between these cars?

Qshooter = Red ** AEM SRI, Skunk2 70mm catback

Galaxy~Si = Blue ** Injen SRI

06BlakSi = Green ** Injen CAI

[Tom1222]

http://www.fgcoupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1590

15 HP gain with Injen CAI!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I got my injen cold air installed today. I did a baseline run on the dyno and got 170.89 hp and 127.85 max torque stock. Then we installed the Cai and ran it again after the install we got these numbers- 184.22 hp and 134.60 max torque. I was not expecting 15 hp gains. Anyone else got a injen cai installed and dynoed. And it was hot in the shop too. Im in vegas.

http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0089rx.jpg


I did 2 baseline runs and then the after with the cai. The 2 baseline runs got identical numbers.

[Tom1222]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

Just to reiterate; the Scangauge uses the car's OBDII to get it's readings. It plugs right into the OBD port. Honda builds in an intake temperature sensor. It is already there on all Si's. All the SGII allows you to do is see this information that the car is using from that sensor. If it were a heat soak issue as you suggested then all the intakes should show a similar temp, but they are drastically different. Also, if it were a soak issue it would mean Honda's sensor was useless.

From the Honda Si press release:

That explains it. Honda's temp sensor is useless.
Thanks for clearing that up!

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by Tom1222

That explains it. Honda's temp sensor is useless.
Thanks for clearing that up!

LOL! Yup, the sensors they use to control their entire engine are crap!