TSX bottom end Si k20z3 Head is this possible?

[Matauz]

impretty sure you have to bump the compression to at least 11.1 or 12.1 to make the 250+hp on the franky swap

[xxmstajxx]

here we go.........eBay Motors: 04 05 06 07 ACURA TSX 2.4 K24A2 ENGINE (item 110243470204 end time May-14-08 15:47:55 PDT)

already a start....

[soxfan143]

Originally Posted by Matauz

impretty sure you have to bump the compression to at least 11.1 or 12.1 to make the 250+hp on the franky swap

If you use the 06 TSX block you will not have to bump compression at all to make 250+. The TSX is already at 10.5:1 or it might even be at 11:1 already. Use the TSX cams and all the basic bolt ons such as pullies, race header, exhaust, intake. And you should be close to the 250 mark. But I would recommend the X intake or the stock MAF housing with an Apexi filter. This will let the MAF sensor work perfectly to keep safe AFR's with the TSX block and cams. I read a thread where Doug from Hondata did this swap and with the stock MAF housing the stock ECU was able to keep the AFR's extremely safe without any tuning. Just a little extra info that I forgot in my first post. But if you want to up the compression I would recommend some kind of piggyback ECU for now. Or you will definately blow something up.

[mad monkey]

Originally Posted by htec17

same head just better cams and ports

The ports flow the same. We have a stronger valve train for the higher redline.

Originally Posted by fiji06si13

Ok but with my head and k24 bottom end are we looken at 250hp and 190 ftlbs. or what?

No... Jnaut dynoed at 221hp with lightweight flywheel, intake and stock exhaust.

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

That was the second k24 block he put in it though. I think he threw a rod or spun a bearing on the first one. The reason being is the k24 (especially the crv block) is not designed to rev to 8000. It might do it a time or two, but it will go kaboooooom at some point.

SCC put an RSX-S head on a TSX. With all the bolt ons, stage one cams and a P&P, K-pro, they put 265 to the wheels. If you build a block with better pistons, rods and bearings, 300 hp is very possible.

He didn't put an o-ring on the oil pump feed pressure side. He ran low oil pressure and spun a bearing. He didn't blow it racing whatsoever. His motor seized up leaving the honda dealership's driveway. K24 internals can hold up to 8k. The older CRV blocks that had lower redlines than the ones we use withstood 8k redline. You're right, the CRV block INTERNALS aren't designed but the TSX internals are beefier than our k20 internals. Only reason for the doubt of high redline reliability is because of the increased stroke. But from seeing what can and HAS been done in the past. An increase of 800 rpm is ok. People just buy the CRV block because it's only about 800 bucks and they build the internals anyway.


I'm currently in the making of a DIY frankenstien conversion. Stand by for the thread!

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by mad monkey

No... Jnaut dynoed at 221hp with lightweight flywheel, intake and stock exhaust.

With the "standard" driveline loss of 12% for a fwd car, 221 to the wheels is 247 at the fly wheel. Thought it might help with some comparisons.

[jeiarneesi]

K24 short block with K20A2 VTEC cylinder head HOW TO by SCC [Archive] - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum

hmmm^ close enough

[mad monkey]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

With the "standard" driveline loss of 12% for a fwd car, 221 to the wheels is 247 at the fly wheel. Thought it might help with some comparisons.

But that's not what's put DOWN. That's just to the flywheel. Maybe on an engine dyno or something it would put out that much but it's not. It's pretty simple, you're orignially at 11.0:1 compression with a 2.0 and you're taking the same head and putting on a 2.4 block that held a 10.5:1 CR. It's not adding a turbo, nitrous or 4 more cylinders. It's just alot more torque. The average of the cars in our area dynoed 181-185 stock. You will no way in hell dyno 250 just from adding 400 more cc's of displacement. Actually it's more like 354cc's. It hit the 2.4L mark by a very slight margin.

Originally Posted by jeiarneesi

K24 short block with K20A2 VTEC cylinder head HOW TO by SCC [Archive] - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum


hmmm^ close enough

That's a really fun article to read cause of the comparison pictures. It's just the little things you have to mod or do that it doesn't show. But nonetheless it's a VERY good place to start and gather info. K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum is actually the best K series info site I've seen and been to so far. When you post a thread people respond with answers you're looking for. They're search is pretty crappy but other than that to that site!

[Sirbelch]

^^^ Hence the quotes around "standard" when I used 12% to do the math. Its not perfect, its an used estimate. If he put down 221 and the cars in your area average 181 that's a 40 hp gain which is only 2.7% off of the estimate I came up with. That's not to shabby for a guess. Also, when you had torque, you add hp. hp = (tq x rpm)/5252.

[LiL Sang]

Originally Posted by honda_man12

...Thats hard to believe...stage 2 STI's are damn quick...(from what I've seen anyways)

yea, it's quick from a dig, not from a roll. Stage 2 STi consists of turbo-back exhaust, ecu, and optional intake.

[geoscranny84]

my last setup... K20/k24
i bought a k24a4 and put tsx pistons+rods...with a k20 head + ips Kme's cams
i put down 250hp and 195tq on a dyno jet..
other mods was...Rbc mani+440 rdx injectors,flywheel...etc

[02civicsi]

^^^Now that's what I'm talking about. 250hp straight up N/A

[mad monkey]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

^^^ Hence the quotes around "standard" when I used 12% to do the math. Its not perfect, its an used estimate. If he put down 221 and the cars in your area average 181 that's a 40 hp gain which is only 2.7% off of the estimate I came up with. That's not to shabby for a guess. Also, when you had torque, you add hp. hp = (tq x rpm)/5252.

I'm familiar with the calculations, just not enough to retain in my head lol. The cars that averaged in OUR area... if you live in vacaville you're close enough, averaged 181 stock. Jnaut was not stock when he dynoed at 221. He had a CAI, reflash and lightweight flywheel I believe. Not exactly sure cause I'm too lazy to go look for it.

[KidnKorner]

Originally Posted by htec17

same head just better cams and ports

Indentical head, different cams and valve springs

Originally Posted by fa1

Since you just want the block go for the k24a1(crv) like you noted above. It can be bought for relatively cheap and same results as the k24a2(tsx) block. I really suggest you go aftermarket and rebuild the block though. Some great websites to get more info about your swap is K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum or K-Series.com - The Honda and Acura K Motor Magazine

for the same results....I couldn't disagree with you more.

For a few dollars more you can have oil squirters, better internals and a higher compression ratio. Definitely build the K24A3/4.... Rod bolts would be good enough for mild to moderate K24A2 set-up. Youd definitely make more power with the A2 vs any other K24 block.

Originally Posted by xvoltm2

at this moment we have nothing to tune with...

You couldn't be further from the truth. Perhaps you should say "we have nothing plug and play to tune with." Undoubtedly you are referring to K pro.

There are so many methods to tune the FA/FG platform it's not even funny. It's all the cry babies that are whining about not having plug and play. Either rewire your car or shut up and wait.

Originally Posted by achilles225

there's a member on here that has this done already. he has the cr-v bottomend and the z3 head on it. he added a cai and flywheel and hes putting out 220-230 hp and hes running circles around stage 2 sti's. he has a video also with proof.

Sure he's running circles around an AWD vehicle......on a roll.

I dont know if we are talking about the same guy but I have seen a guy around with a CRV block, intake, DCRH, Reflash and emanage ultimate tuned. Then he was putting about 210 down

Originally Posted by achilles225

he went through two motors was because oil pressure or something like,not because it was reving high. it was fine. he even has an update to let everyone know it its ok and no problems

Did he use the CRV oil pump?

[Turbotezza]

If you're going to build a 9-10k rpm NA monster with forged rods, pistons etc), you certainly don't need or want the oil squirters! I believe the CRV block (A4) doesn't have the squirter ports drilled out, and being that it is cheaper than a TSX block (A2), it makse sense to start from here.

[soxfan143]

Originally Posted by Turbotezza

If you're going to build a 9-10k rpm NA monster with forged rods, pistons etc), you certainly don't need or want the oil squirters! I believe the CRV block (A4) doesn't have the squirter ports drilled out, and being that it is cheaper than a TSX block (A2), it makse sense to start from here.

Why wouldn't you want the oil squirters? Our motor has them. It will only benefit the situation. The extra oil spraying on the pistons will help tremendously with high rpm stability and reliability. The CR-V block is only 9:1 compression. That's alot of power to give up for a few hundred bucks. The TSX motor will handle the high RPM's ALOt better than the CR-V block ever could. The length of the stroke in the 2.4 block will cause piston slap above 8000. And without the extra oil spraying on the pistons kiss that motor goodbye. At least with the TSX block it will last longer and you would get more bang for the buck out of the box. But if you intend on going with forged internals it doesn't matter. But if you plan on keeping the internals stock spend the extra money on the TSX block or you will be pulling thge CR-V block and changing the internals real soon. And you will end up spending way more money in the long run than if you just spent the few extra dollars in the first place.

[Sirbelch]

I just guessing here, but for a race engine, oil squiters could cause more friction and add weight to the rods/pistons which will only slow the engine down. Are we talking about a big drop in hp, probably not, but if it is a race engine, every hp helps.

[KidnKorner]

The squirters also aid in cooling. The only reason you would want to drop the oil squirters is to maintain consistant oil pressure perhaps in race applications.

[mad monkey]

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

Sure he's running circles around an AWD vehicle......on a roll.

I dont know if we are talking about the same guy but I have seen a guy around with a CRV block, intake, DCRH, Reflash and emanage ultimate tuned. Then he was putting about 210 down

I don't think so. The one we are talking about is Jnaut, he has a thread about his build and another about him spinning his bearing. He dynoed at 221 and nothing lower I don't think. There's a user on k20a.org named wadzii. I believe that's the guy you're talking about. I don't know what his name is on here but he's posted many dyno graphs of him trying to fix the dip at 6000rpm and till not can't fix it. He's lowered his a/f's to a safe range with the emanage and has smooth out his tq. curve except for that 6k dip.

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

Did he use the CRV oil pump?

No, he used the rsx-s oil pump and chain to delete the use of the balance shafts.

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

I just guessing here, but for a race engine, oil squiters could cause more friction and add weight to the rods/pistons which will only slow the engine down. Are we talking about a big drop in hp, probably not, but if it is a race engine, every hp helps.

Correct, in race applications alot of times the squirters are blocked off not just because consistent oil pressure is needed but majority of the aftermarket piston skirt designs hit the jets themselves upon intake and combustion strokes. People usually catch it when they're doing their final spin check before installing the oil pan on their build.

[Turbotezza]

I appologise if I caused some confusion, I thought that the thread starter wanted to use jest the K25 block & install aftermarket pistons & rods. I agree, if you going to use stock Honda parts then go for the TSX short/long block.

Oil cooling does add a measure of reliability for a stock engine with cast pistons and manufacturers include them for just that very reason. However, forged pistons in an n/a application don't really need this.

Originally Posted by soxfan143

Why wouldn't you want the oil squirters? Our motor has them. It will only benefit the situation. The extra oil spraying on the pistons will help tremendously with high rpm stability and reliability. The CR-V block is only 9:1 compression. That's alot of power to give up for a few hundred bucks. The TSX motor will handle the high RPM's ALOt better than the CR-V block ever could. The length of the stroke in the 2.4 block will cause piston slap above 8000. And without the extra oil spraying on the pistons kiss that motor goodbye. At least with the TSX block it will last longer and you would get more bang for the buck out of the box. But if you intend on going with forged internals it doesn't matter. But if you plan on keeping the internals stock spend the extra money on the TSX block or you will be pulling thge CR-V block and changing the internals real soon. And you will end up spending way more money in the long run than if you just spent the few extra dollars in the first place.