Had the chance to autocross an Si with the Tein SS...

[friedk]

You guys have to tell me more about the ins and outs of autoX sometime.

I'm finding all this information so incredibly interesting.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by friedk

How are speed 3s and cobalt SSs doing in GS? (assuming they're actually in GS)

They're both in DS against the Integra Type R and 330i BMW. Does that answer your question?

But, the MS3 has a shot in coming years as more people develop them (just as I'm doing with my LX) because most of the cleaner, mostly original ITR's are being retired from autocross duty and locked up by owners who want to preserve what the car is as there aren't that many of them left thanks to thieves, wrecks, or hacks modifying them with turbos and such. As for the BMW 3 Series, the introduction of the 1 Series may cause a lot of people to unload those. DS is going to be very different in two to three years, you watch.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[honda93]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

I just don't run in Pro class so I can feel like I have a bigger weiner than I acuatlly do...and to make me look like a better driver than I am, thats why I NEED to run R comps hides my horrid driving.

I won't buy a Mustang

1. You ass.

2. I would, especially the Bullitt. Hell, I'd even wear turtlenecks and sportjackets with patches on the elbows like McQueen did if I had one!

Look at the 5th post on this page... http://sccaforums.com/forums/2/26656...ad.aspx#266561

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[I Vtec, do you?]

I understand.. I didnt' realize you guys were comparing them to their classes. I thought you were saying LX vs. SI, the LX would win hands down.. I didn't know you meant the LX is better in its class than the SI is in its class.. That makes sense, thanks

[Highrev1]

I would show up to every AUtox in that getup if I owned a Mustang...

At this point its the S2K in AS but I will need to test drive the solstice just for shits and giggles

Happy TUrkey Day off to bed.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

I understand.. I didnt' realize you guys were comparing them to their classes. I thought you were saying LX vs. SI, the LX would win hands down.. I didn't know you meant the LX is better in its class than the SI is in its class.. That makes sense, thanks

I don't want to keep arguing this, but even when one compares a GS-prepped Si and an HS-prepped LX, the LX turns out to be faster than the Si like 90+% of the times because of the attributes I mentioned earlier. Frankly if the Si had a better LSD, and I literally mean a Quaife with at least a 50-60% lockup, the car would be a significantly better autocrosser than it is right now off the showroom floor. If the Si had no sunroof in addition to that Quaife LSD, lets say that I may very well have an Si today and I would have gotten that car to work for me in GS... But it doesn't, and it gets demolished in GS by the MINI Cooper S and therefore I knew, even before the cars were introduced in September 2005, that the LX would be the better autocrosser in Stock class form.

And you know what, I am sincerely having a lot of fun with the LX and I get almost 40mpg on the highway to boot!

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[AznSupastar]

u know u r hardcore when u buy a certain car with the intent to compete is certain class!!!!! lol

so guys, (i'm more track than auto X...i have yet to try, i will next yr), for tracking, aside from the suspension, does the Si benefit much with the progress rear sway bar upgrade? and what about all those B-pillar bars, H brace, and blah blah blah. do they benefit much considering their cost?

[Solo2EG]

Other than the swaybar I wouldn't bother with that other stuff... there are plenty of other things that make a car a better handler before you "need" that sort of thing.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by Solo2EG

Other than the swaybar I wouldn't bother with that other stuff... there are plenty of other things that make a car a better handler before you "need" that sort of thing.

Agreed. Use the money you save from not buying the other useless stuff and put it towards a set of 8" or 8.5" wheels.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by honda93

The Integra Type R had no sound deadening/matting and was based off the RS shell... All other models had sunroofs. Honda could use the DX/LX shell and spare the sound deadening stuff as well.

As for the goodies, the Si motor and trans with a more aggressive LSD. I'd put hotter cams and an ECU in it and call it a day. As for the suspension, I'd have custom Showas (Honda's OEM supplier) built with a true race valving, not some upgraded HFP unit like the Mugen kit is imho. I'd increase the srping rates by 50% in front and 75% in the rear and pair it with a 22mm rear bar. I'd make AC and a radio optional and kill the side airbags in the seats by running something very similar to the delSol seats in design, simplicity and weight.

That's my Type R and I'd gladly spend $25,000 for one.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

When I wrote this, it showed my support of me putting a K-series Civic in my driveway. But I doubt Honda would build this car (to which I would also add 17x8" wheels and a 32mm solid front bar) because in my own little world, my Type R would set the standard for FWD cars, but it wouldn't be for everybody because it would be a stiff, oversteering beast that could lay down all of its 220 hp coming out of corners.

So honestly, in the context in which this thread progressed, yes, an R-series Civic may be the better Stock class autocrosser right now based on my experiences with both platforms.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[I Vtec, do you?]

Originally Posted by honda93

I don't want to keep arguing this, but even when one compares a GS-prepped Si and an HS-prepped LX, the LX turns out to be faster than the Si like 90+% of the times because of the attributes I mentioned earlier. Frankly if the Si had a better LSD, and I literally mean a Quaife with at least a 50-60% lockup, the car would be a significantly better autocrosser than it is right now off the showroom floor. If the Si had no sunroof in addition to that Quaife LSD, lets say that I may very well have an Si today and I would have gotten that car to work for me in GS... But it doesn't, and it gets demolished in GS by the MINI Cooper S and therefore I knew, even before the cars were introduced in September 2005, that the LX would be the better autocrosser in Stock class form.

And you know what, I am sincerely having a lot of fun with the LX and I get almost 40mpg on the highway to boot!

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

Ok I'm obviously quite ignorant towards Autocrossing other than knowing the basics about it.. so I donno what "GS-prepped Si and an HS-prepped LX" means really. All I wanna know is are you guys saying that a stock LX vs a stock SI around a track would show better times with the LX? If so, I truly find that hard to beleive.

[2000civic]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

Ok I'm obviously quite ignorant towards Autocrossing other than knowing the basics about it.. so I donno what "GS-prepped Si and an HS-prepped LX" means really. All I wanna know is are you guys saying that a stock LX vs a stock SI around a track would show better times with the LX? If so, I truly find that hard to beleive.

I think what they are saying is that around an auto-x course a properly set up lx could take an Si 90% of the time. It is understandable, because in auto-x you would be taking turns below 20mph at times. 20mph in an Si would be a little below 3000rpm in 2nd gear. An lx weighs 225 pounds less than the Si and has similar tourqe at that rpm, so................ the Si really cannot utilize its huge power advantage on such a tight course, because the powerband does not allow it. Now if it were on a road course, the Si would eat the lx for breakfast. That is what I have gotten out of this 10 page thread. High rev, or honda 93 correct me if I am wrong. However I would still take my Si

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

Ok I'm obviously quite ignorant towards Autocrossing other than knowing the basics about it.. so I donno what "GS-prepped Si and an HS-prepped LX" means really. All I wanna know is are you guys saying that a stock LX vs a stock SI around a track would show better times with the LX? If so, I truly find that hard to beleive.

GS and HS are different classes with the same rules (I think, 93,Revy correct if needed). 93's HS Lx runs Si front struts, Si front swaybar and stupid stiff rear Blistiens. Right now, there isn't much out there for the Si to up grade to unless you go custom. So, with the Lx's less weight and easier to upgrade parts, it can beat an GS Si. Stock for stock, I dont know. On a real road course, the Si will own the Lx. On an Auto X course where being able to change direction really fast is more important than straight line performance, the Lx with its lower weight, should beat an Si. Also, at such low speeds both cars are going to handle nearly the same at the limit (which you cant find on the street, unless you have roads like I have ) so the handling advantage the Si has is really negated.


Honda, My girl has a 4 year old and he climbs right in to his seat AND buckles it himself. So soon, you wont have to reach back there at all.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

GS and HS are different classes with the same rules (I think, 93,Revy correct if needed). 93's HS Lx runs Si front struts, Si front swaybar and stupid stiff rear Blistiens. Right now, there isn't much out there for the Si to up grade to unless you go custom. So, with the Lx's less weight and easier to upgrade parts, it can beat an GS Si. Stock for stock, I dont know. On a real road course, the Si will own the Lx. On an Auto X course where being able to change direction really fast is more important than straight line performance, the Lx with its lower weight, should beat an Si. Also, at such low speeds both cars are going to handle nearly the same at the limit (which you cant find on the street, unless you have roads like I have ) so the handling advantage the Si has is really negated.


Honda, My girl has a 4 year old and he climbs right in to his seat AND buckles it himself. So soon, you wont have to reach back there at all.

Explained perfectly. And thanks about the seatbelt thing. :)

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[honda93]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

Ok I'm obviously quite ignorant towards Autocrossing other than knowing the basics about it.. so I donno what "GS-prepped Si and an HS-prepped LX" means really. All I wanna know is are you guys saying that a stock LX vs a stock SI around a track would show better times with the LX? If so, I truly find that hard to beleive.

I've openly said that around a true road course an Si had betterbeat my LX, if based only on the Si's additional 60hp alone.

[I Vtec, do you?]

Ok thanks for the help guys, rep

[Whocares05050]

How well do you think the setup would work on a road racing course?

[honda93]

Originally Posted by Whocares05050

How well do you think the setup would work on a road racing course?

What, the autocross setup on my LX or my hypothetical "Type R" setup if such a car were to be built?

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[Whocares05050]

Originally Posted by honda93

What, the autocross setup on my LX or my hypothetical "Type R" setup if such a car were to be built?

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

From the original setup you thought was so bad for auto x.

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by Whocares05050

From the original setup you thought was so bad for auto x.

Auto x set ups have A LOT MORE oversteer in them in order to get the car to rotate at such low speeds. At track speeds, the auto x setup would be scary