Had the chance to autocross an Si with the Tein SS...

[Highrev1]

The Motons that are needed to be competitive for the S2k are the cost of an EF by itself. I am still undecided but a superhcarged K series EF would be cool, but I dunno if it would be competitive against the EVO's...

[friedk]

So you can float through them or something?

I don't understand.

Honda93, why did you regret jumping ship to the mazda 3? I'm a bit curious on how the mazda3 stacks up compare to our little R18s.

[I Vtec, do you?]

Well I've (obviously) never autocrossed but I still think I had a valid question of why you can't be in the upper revs.. thanks for the answer.

REGARDLESS, I own both an SI and an LX and to compare the two in handling is a friggen joke, I'm sorry. The base civic just wasn't meant to be tossed around like the SI is, and it clearly shows when you drive the two.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

The Motons that are needed to be competitive for the S2k are the cost of an EF by itself. I am still undecided but a superhcarged K series EF would be cool, but I dunno if it would be competitive against the EVO's...

True on the Jason Saini-spec Motons that became the de facto setup preference. BUT... Shenefield and I discussed the feasibility of a FWD-only SM class (called SM3) the same year I sold the 1993 Street Mod Civic to buy the 2006 HS Civic.

A FWD car will NEVER win in SM at anything other than the local level, especially now that Daddio's EVO is setup and Sias' M3 is reliable. Truth be told, this was one of the top 3 reasons I sold the black car.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[honda93]

Originally Posted by friedk

So you can float through them or something?

I don't understand.

Honda93, why did you regret jumping ship to the mazda 3? I'm a bit curious on how the mazda3 stacks up compare to our little R18s.

Don't get me wrong, the Mazda3 is a beast, especially with the 2.3L motor (in a straight line) compared to the LX. But I almost got it with an automatic to boot! Yes, you heard right, I had a freakin mental breakdown (of the automotive type!)

I was really having a bad week that week in September... Between starting off the school year (as a teacher) and starting off my internship (as a principal), one day I banged my head on the Civic's roof getting my 3 year old into the back seat and said, "F-this, I'm getting the Mazda3 5 door... It has practicality and Koni's readily available."

But luckily, cooler heads prevailed and I still have the Civic LX. Which I was reassured of its "awesomeness" by Greg because a few weekends later, he co-drove it and said we were spot on with setup thus far. Thanks Greg, I'll bet you had no idea you were playing the role of Dr. Phil for a while there!!!

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[Highrev1]

STS has been done so many times, I don't want to dot hat. AS in the S2K may be the best option, if I can keep from being over aggresive with it cause I tend to in that car

I had not idea TONY but the setup you have now works excellent.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

Well I've (obviously) never autocrossed but I still think I had a valid question of why you can't be in the upper revs.. thanks for the answer.

REGARDLESS, I own both an SI and an LX and to compare the two in handling is a friggen joke, I'm sorry. The base civic just wasn't meant to be tossed around like the SI is, and it clearly shows when you drive the two.

On your first point, go autocross next season. Please. End of discussion.

On your second point, right off the showroom floor, the Si is a more entertaining daily driver compared to the LX at 5/10 to 7/10... And it had better be, it is an Si after all, Honda needs to justify that to 99% of the buying public. However, push either beyond 7/10 and you'll see that Honda's insurance guys won the war... That's where shocks, a race alignment, and R-compounds come into play, and that's where the Si loses its advantage.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[friedk]

Ivtec, I really don't think your perceived handling on the street compares to autocrossing a car.

Honda93, how come you didn't consider a 4 door civic over a 2 door? It'd probably save you a few bumps on the head.

All the automobile mags seem to praise the 3 as superior handling and performance wise. How do you think the two would compare with an equal driver, good tires, and konis?

[Highrev1]

WheelBase.

[friedk]

The 2 inches really makes the sedan handle that much worse than the coupe?

[honda93]

Originally Posted by friedk

I really don't think your perceived handling on the street compares to autocrossing a car.

I wonder what the word for butt dyno is..when it comes to handling.

Honda93, how come you didn't consider a 4 door civic over a 2 door?

I assume you're talking to "I VTEC, do you?" in your first sentence, correct?

As for the Sedan vs. Coupe decision initially... The LX Coupe had much stiffer springs and shocks than the LX Sedans, a marginally bigger rear bar, and a shorter wheelbase and lower overall height when first introduced in late 2005. See, I told you all that this car was purchased with autocrossing in mind from its inception.

Besides, my Dad always had coupes when I was growing up... a 79 Ford Fairmont Futura, an 85 Thunderbird, and an 88 Mustang LX 5.0.

So I guess you could say that having a Coupe is NOT a big deal because we were fine, even on family trips; hell my sister and I were almost teens when my Dad got the Mustang. Thinking about that makes the decision to get the Civic Coupe not a bad one now that I reflect upon it. Plus, the little guy climbs in the seat by himself. Technically all I have to do is buckle him in. Just that day when I banged my head, he was sleeping and I obviously wasn't going to wake him to get him into the car to go home. No parent would do that, it's parental suicide!

Damn, it's like a cathartic release session here tonight. Thanks 8th Civic!

To add to your updated post: Again, the magazines drive these things on the street at 5/10 to 7/10. They don't autocross. The Mazda3 is blessed with a great shock/spring setup coupled with big sway bars for an economy car. The Mazda3 is heavy and has a lot of that weight ahead of the front axle.
If I drove on road courses more, I'd consider a Mazdaspeed3, as it is probably the best car out there in that price range and segment (especially now that the motor mount issue has been addressed) but as we posted earlier, if finances allow in a few years, a RWD racer will be in the driveway anyway.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[friedk]

These posts are always so enlightening.

I'm glad you're able all of this out in the open. lol



Once I get some konis(whenever they finally come out) and a better set of tires(im currently trying to kill a set of wanlis), I might consider autoxing my car.

How is the autox scene in N.Texas?

[I Vtec, do you?]

Well then someone enlighten me. I'm legitimately curious, not trying to be a smartass. Why is the loose and poor handling civic LX a better car to track than a better-handling SI?

[Highrev1]

Tracking is differnt than AUTOX. You are constrained by the rules in AUtox, and limited to the class. The cars that you compete against in that class also determine how well the car does.

Certain cars do better with certain mods. For example, if the factory alignment allowed for more -camber up front the SI could probably be more competitive in its class.

And the LX is not that loose and poor handling when in full AUTOX stock form, in fact in stock class it behaves similar if not the same as the SI when prepped.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

Well then someone enlighten me. I'm legitimately curious, not trying to be a smartass. Why is the loose and poor handling civic LX a better car to track than a better-handling SI?

For starters, the LX is about 225# lighter than an Si, most of that being up front where a FWD car is typically overworked anyhow. Next, the LX is able to use its powerband (though not as impressive numerically speaking as the Si) more effectively than an Si in autocross conditions. Third, Stock allows the changing of front bars and shocks along with R-compounds on the OEM size wheel coupled with basically free alignment settings (no SPC camber bolts, but OEM Honda ones are fine). Couple that all together, and you have a potent LX that is rarely beaten by the Si in autocross events.

Better yet, PM 130R and ask him how the Si turned out for him in GS.

Better still, here's the link... Autocrossers: Check in here!
Start at post 548 and read on from there, post 550 is enlightening and may prove to be a little disheartening for you.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[Highrev1]

The first year the SI came out I fully prepped mine for GS and it wasn't competitive againts the supercharged mini's now with the turbo minis about a second faster on a 60 second course, there is no way it can compete.

I hae competed againt TONY in many events granted I still run in novice class cause I am a novice, but his car is fast and kills almost all GS competitors.

[friedk]

How are speed 3s and cobalt SSs doing in GS? (assuming they're actually in GS)

[honda93]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

The first year the SI came out I fully prepped mine for GS and it wasn't competitive againts the supercharged mini's now with the turbo minis about a second faster on a 60 second course, there is no way it can compete.

Sad but true... GS is now utterly and truly relegated to Spec-MINI S status. The RX-8 has the same grapple hold on BS. That's why AS, CS and HS are the best classes out there right now, the competition is varied. FS is going to get interesting with all the new Mustang flavors (another Bullitt edition was just introduced and its specs look juicy)

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[honda93]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

The first year the SI came out I fully prepped mine for GS and it wasn't competitive againts the supercharged mini's now with the turbo minis about a second faster on a 60 second course, there is no way it can compete.

I hae competed againt TONY in many events granted I still run in novice class cause I am a novice, but his car is fast and kills almost all GS competitors.

Greg, you're no novice, stop being humble.

[Highrev1]

I just don't run in Pro class so I can feel like I have a bigger weiner than I acuatlly do...and to make me look like a better driver than I am, thats why I NEED to run R comps hides my horrid driving.

I won't buy a Mustang