Report on Willow Springs June 2, 2007

[White05X3]

I took my basically stock 2007 Civic Si Sedan to Willow Springs Raceway for a BMW Car Club Driver's School. The only mods on my car are Porterfield R-4 brake pads, StopTech slotted rotors and ATE Super Blue brake fluid. Tires are stock summer Michelins. Motor and suspension are all stock.

I posted a video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DFYrCV6cIc

I am really sorry for the poor quality video. I mounted my Cruise Cam to the rear headrest posts and I now know that was a mistake.

In this video you will see me pass some really fast cars. The reality is that I am supposed to be in the advanced-intermediate group (and probably the advanced group) but due to space limitations at the event I was put in a group with the better beginners. As you can tell, they never once put their cars in the right place at the right time on the track. They were uncooperative with passes and frankly dangerous to follow.

PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT pretending the Civic Si is faster than any of the cars I passed. I am just showing that the driver is sometimes more important than the car.

The grey Porsche 996 C4S was one of the worst examples...That driver was braking way too much for the corners and then would not point me by on the straights. Obviously down the very long straights of Willow Springs that car would pull away...duh...Once he finally did point my by (after many laps of utter frustration ) he barely backed-off the throttle. That made the pass dangerous for both of us!

The Civic Si just did not have enough power for that track...In order to make passes, I had to start gathering momentum 1 -2 turns before the actual pass happened. On those MANY occasions in which the passee did not point me by, I had to stand on the brakes and lose all my momentum. Then it took me nearly half a lap to gather it all back.

The handling is beyond reproach. Steering is fine. Brakes (as modified) worked great all day. But Willow is a horsepower track and the Civic just lacked. Going through turn 2, a long sweeping uphill right, I was full throttle in 4th (at about 82 mph) all the way around and never gained 1 mph. I couldn't use 3rd since that put me on the rev limiter about 1/2 way through. Going up through turns 3 and 4 (also sharply uphill), throttle buried in 3rd gear, the car would not accelerate at all. The one time I tried 2nd I was in the rev limiter in the middle of turn 3. That is an off-camber turn with a very short shot to turn 4, making an up-shift problematic.

On the front straight I could only hit 105 which is not that fast. The cars with real hp were hitting 130-150 on that same straight. This all leads me to wonder why people drag race the Si...but that's another story.

Out of the box the Civic Si is a good track car. Honda did a very good job in this regard. I think it could tolerate some more suspension travel and slightly firmer shocks/sway bars but that would compromise the decent street ride quality. For example going into turn 8 at about 102-105 the car felt very uncomfortable on the bumps near the apex. It never upset grip but definitely made me take that corner more slowly.

Some people ask whether or not to leave VSA on at the track. Please note that I left it on all day and only had it intervene once in 80 minutes of track time. The one time it did, I botched a corner by carrying too much speed into it and trying to accelerate too hard out. While I would have been fine without it, I was glad it was there. For non-pros like me LEAVE THE VSA ON!!!!!!

Thanks for reading my post. I hope you enjoy the videos.

[White05X3]

I forgot...I also learned that the nav system map has a map of the track on it...COOL!!!

[NitrousG35]

Great post. Running completely stock, the car seemed like it was running pretty good. As you said, Willow Springs rewards horsepower, much like Road America. There is no substitute for cubic inches. I am sure if the track had had shorter straights and a few more twisties, your Si would have done even better. Nevertheless, thanks for posting up.

[HondaScott]

Hey,

Glad to see you out on the track again. When you said that the handling was "beyond reproach" do you mean that as a good or a bad thing?

It can be very annoying when high horse power cars hog the track. If you catch somebody on a track you are faster... period. Maybe they would have to let off for 1/8th of a straight for a safe pass, but after that they would never see you again.

I really enjoy how the Si isn't fast on the straights to be quite honest. It makes you work a lot harder in corners to build momentum, and that's where all the fun happens. In my last car (3000gt VR4) it was all about speed on the straights and throwing the corners away, and it got kind of old.

That is so cool about the navi. I'll have to check mine next time I'm at a track.

Scott

[White05X3]

Originally Posted by HondaScott

Hey,

When you said that the handling was "beyond reproach" do you mean that as a good or a bad thing?

Scott

Definitely a good thing! I am very impressed with that car's setup!

[eugenekim.net]

i would love to try buttonwillow.

[White05X3]

Originally Posted by eugenekim.net

i would love to try buttonwillow.

In So Cal it is my favorite track! Fast, technical and virtually nothing to hit. There is only one dangerous corner and it is less of a problem in our fwd cars.

[MikeColangelo]

I've tracked my Mustang at "Big Willow". That track favors the higher horsepower cars. On Streets of Willow, the Si is a better choice than the Mustang. That track rewards better handling cars than does Big Willow.

I'll be at Buttonwillow next weekend. That's my favorite SoCal track, too. I had planned to run the Mustang on Saturday and the Civic on Sunday but the National Guard has other plans for me on Saturday so I haven't decided which car to take on Sunday. Probably the Mustang since it's set up better for the track. I'll be car #511 in HPDE 3 (look for a blue Mustang or a red Si).

[Capt Canuck]

How did you find the BMW driver's school? How did they break the time down between seat time and instruction? I've been on a track day with Proformance driving school out of Pacific raceways in Seattle and am leaning towards doing a BMW drivers school weekend out in Spokane just to mix things up a little.
BTW, did the sat nav tell you when to pit in? ;-)

[White05X3]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

How did you find the BMW driver's school? How did they break the time down between seat time and instruction? I've been on a track day with Proformance driving school out of Pacific raceways in Seattle and am leaning towards doing a BMW drivers school weekend out in Spokane just to mix things up a little.
BTW, did the sat nav tell you when to pit in? ;-)

I am a member of the BMW Club so I get regular e-mails announcing their events. You can go to http://www.bmwcca.org and click on "chapters" to find your local chapter.

The club usually gives 20-30 minute sessions with about 1 hour or so of class time between. They almost always allow time for a "pit stop" before going back out on track and time to make adjustments to the car if necessary.

There are some reasons why I generally prefer BMW CCA events. The main one is they keep a fairly tight grip on the students. The next reason is that most of the cars are very nice...suggesting the probability that somebody will carelessly bend your car and theirs goes down. Finally I have found that the quality of their instruction is very good. To me these are worth the extra money.

Mike - who is hosting the event at Buttonwillow next week-end??

[MikeColangelo]

Originally Posted by White05X3

Mike - who is hosting the event at Buttonwillow next week-end??

NASA (National Auto Sports Association). They have a well-run HPDE program.

BTW, I recently bought a 1988 BMW 325is. I'm a new member of the BMW CCA and plan on doing track events with them, too. Maybe I'll see you at one of these events?

[White05X3]

Originally Posted by MikeColangelo

NASA (National Auto Sports Association). They have a well-run HPDE program.

BTW, I recently bought a 1988 BMW 325is. I'm a new member of the BMW CCA and plan on doing track events with them, too. Maybe I'll see you at one of these events?

Congratulations and welcome to the club! My next CCA event will be in October at California Speedway. At that one I hope to be in my 335i Coupe that I am taking delivery of in July!

[MikeColangelo]

Originally Posted by White05X3

Congratulations and welcome to the club! My next CCA event will be in October at California Speedway. At that one I hope to be in my 335i Coupe that I am taking delivery of in July!

Nice! What color?

This is my first BMW and it needs some "refreshening". I received a performance chip from Turner Motorsports yesterday.

I drove on Cal Speedway this past March. It was a LOT of fun. I was hitting 120 mph on the half-oval.

[White05X3]

Titanium Silver. We are picking it up in Munich on July 18th...Once it gets back from Germany I will be selling the Si...

The e30 BMW's were amazing cars! Tons of performance potential. If you are in the west side of LA I can help you find good shops to do work. Let me know.

[MikeColangelo]

Originally Posted by White05X3

Titanium Silver. We are picking it up in Munich on July 18th...Once it gets back from Germany I will be selling the Si...

The e30 BMW's were amazing cars! Tons of performance potential. If you are in the west side of LA I can help you find good shops to do work. Let me know.

Wow, picking it up in Germany? That warrants breaking it in on the Autobahn! Good choice in color, BTW!

I have had several folks recommend South Bay Independant BMW Service in Gardena and also Evosport in Huntington Beach. Anyone else I should know about? I live in Lancaster near Willow Springs.

[White05X3]

Originally Posted by MikeColangelo

Wow, picking it up in Germany? That warrants breaking it in on the Autobahn! Good choice in color, BTW!

I have had several folks recommend South Bay Independant BMW Service in Gardena and also Evosport in Huntington Beach. Anyone else I should know about? I live in Lancaster near Willow Springs.

In Northridge is Mark's Independent and Bimmer's Clinic. Mark builds race cars and is an authorized Dinan dealer. Bimmer's Clinic is a really nice shop that does good work, but strictly OEM stuff...

South Bay Independent is owned by a really good guy! His brother is the shop foreman at South Bay BMW. They both race regularly and know how to build cars. Right next door to South Bay Independent is the most amazing alignment shop called West End Alignment.

I hope that helps you out! Let me know how the car is coming along!

[honda93]

Glad to hear everything worked out well for you regarding the brakes.

Porterfield +1

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[White05X3]

Originally Posted by honda93

Glad to hear everything worked out well for you regarding the brakes.

Porterfield +1

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

Thanks again for all of your advice! The pads worked out great. When I took them out the next day they looked barely used!

So again...thank you for the help!