06 si (I,RH,E) VS MSPD3 VS Cobalt SS S/C

[miles10238]

Any idea??

[honda06si]

dont know anything about the mazda. but i was side by side with a cobalt ss stock

so you should walk away

[Euphoric]

if the others are stock.


Si and msp3 will be a drivers race with the edge to the Si.

cobalt will be left in the dust.
dont forget that some simple mods to the mazdaspeed will have it ahead of the Si again.

[PR_S14]

I don't think we have anything on the MS3. A SC cobalt will definitely not be left in the dust either.

More like... MS3 > SC/SS >=< Si (if that makes any sense, lol)

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by Euphoric

if the others are stock.


Si and msp3 will be a drivers race with the edge to the Si.

Are you serious? The 3 will had the Si it's ass . The Si is quick but it needs to make up almost an entire second in the 1/4 to hang with the 3, and with those simply bolt on mods that will not happen.

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by PR_S14

I don't think we have anything on the MS3. A SC cobalt will definitely not be left in the dust either.

More like... MS3 > SC/SS >=< Si (if that makes any sense, lol)

yes it does....and I agree 100%.

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by PR_S14

I don't think we have anything on the MS3. A SC cobalt will definitely not be left in the dust either.

More like... MS3 > SC/SS >=< Si (if that makes any sense, lol)

I would agree, but I got curious the other day and looked up vids of ms3's and was shocked to see more than one vid of stock ms3's running stock srt4's and the srt4 was walking it every time. I would think it would be a little like

ss/sc>srt4=ms3>si

But if the ms3 driver sucks and the si driver is good I would guess the si would win. The ms3 dyno's stock around the same whp as the ss/sc, but is heavier.

[I Vtec, do you?]

Originally Posted by Euphoric

Si and msp3 will be a drivers race with the edge to the Si.

And then you woke up or what?

Little misconceptions in this thread... a MS3 dynos near a Cobalt SS? No.. There have been people dynoing STOCK at 250whp with a MS3 so far.

THe SI will have NOTHING on a MS3 until it gets major, major work done. Bolt-ons are not going to net it the 60 WHP it needs to stick with them.

Lets face it.. even weighing in at 3300 pounds it handles magnificently.. and it works the FWD. It's an amazingly engineered machine.

[Nicholas]

MS3 4-5 cars (ahead of below) SRT4 3-4 cars (ahead of below)
Cobalt SS and Si (I/H/E) Drivers race

It would take a Comptech SC + I/H/E to even hang with a MS3 maybe still not even a drivers race but close enough to the same power range. An AJP kit would def beat the MS3 by about 3-5 cars depending on the driver. Cant say anything about the Redshift kit yet no real #s yet so. I didnt even say the GReddy kit b/c a Comptech SC + I/H/E would beat a GReddy kit by atleast 3-4 cars.

[Blk4drSI]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

And then you woke up or what?

Little misconceptions in this thread... a MS3 dynos near a Cobalt SS? No.. There have been people dynoing STOCK at 250whp with a MS3 so far.

THe SI will have NOTHING on a MS3 until it gets major, major work done. Bolt-ons are not going to net it the 60 WHP it needs to stick with them.

Lets face it.. even weighing in at 3300 pounds it handles magnificently.. and it works the FWD. It's an amazingly engineered machine.

250hp stock. Yeah right.I had a MS6 before my si. I can show you my dyno sheets with intake and exhaust on my speed6 and the dyno a little more than the speed3's. I think I got 226hp and 270ft/lbs of torque. I have driven both, it seems as if you have no idea what you are talking about. I normally dont get involved like this, but seeing as I had one, i felt like I should set this one straight. Its not a amazingly engineered machine. It is on paper, but the heatsoak and ecu problems that plagued my ms6 and numerous others was too much to bear. They are quick cars but dont make them sound like they are of nicer quality then a honda because I have been there and that is a joke.

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

And then you woke up or what?

Little misconceptions in this thread... a MS3 dynos near a Cobalt SS? No.. There have been people dynoing STOCK at 250whp with a MS3 so far.

THe SI will have NOTHING on a MS3 until it gets major, major work done. Bolt-ons are not going to net it the 60 WHP it needs to stick with them.

Lets face it.. even weighing in at 3300 pounds it handles magnificently.. and it works the FWD. It's an amazingly engineered machine.

Originally Posted by Blk4drSI

250hp stock. Yeah right.I had a MS6 before my si. I can show you my dyno sheets with intake and exhaust on my speed6 and the dyno a little more than the speed3's. I think I got 226hp and 270ft/lbs of torque. I have driven both, it seems as if you have no idea what you are talking about. I normally dont get involved like this, but seeing as I had one, i felt like I should set this one straight. Its not a amazingly engineered machine. It is on paper, but the heatsoak and ecu problems that plagued my ms6 and numerous others was too much to bear. They are quick cars but dont make them sound like they are of nicer quality then a honda because I have been there and that is a joke.

How 'bout that? Every dyno that I've seen for the ms3 has been around 220 whp stock. What does the ss/sc dyno around? let's see..

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

Ask, and you shall receive:



Could have smacked out a higher peak HP, by disabling the boost bypass (disconnect it), but then it would have not been a 'true' stock dyno. That's the region where it gets a bit wavy from 6000+


Haven't dyno'd since my latest mods, but should be in the 270whp ballpark

Wow.. how about that.. 222whp on a stock ion redline.

So refer to my earlier statement for the rest of it.. Well, that and learn about the cars your talking about.

I want to point out that I think the ms3 is badass.. I love ms6 too. I thought about trading my em2 in on one when my local mazda dealership was trying to move them off the lot @ $21k but I couldn't afford it so I went home very slowly.

Another thing is SRT4's respond to mods better than any fwd tuning car out there IMO.. $1500 can land you in the 300+whp range easily.. while from what I've read ms3's & 6's don't respond well to mods. But that's not what this conversation is about, is it?
Stock srt4's>ss/sc's but I don't know why.. From all logic stock ss/sc's and redlines should be killing stock srt4s but I have yet to see it for myself. From watching vids srt4's are faster than ms3's also. If you take both cars in the twisties it would be no contest.. but if you're talking straight line the si only has a chance against a bad driver in any of the cars. Well, unless you're bench racing.. then the si has a good chance with equal drivers against an srt4.. since it only ran .2 faster in the 1/4 in testing. :shrugs:

[edit]

I wanted to add that I'm not saying that it's not possible for the ms3 to dyno 250whp stock on the first pull. Like mentioned above, they have terrible heat soak issues which dissolves most of that power when you're on the street or on the track. Maybe with a nice FMIC and some decent ventilation so the damn thing can breathe a little it would live up to it's expectations.

[I Vtec, do you?]

Originally Posted by Blk4drSI

250hp stock. Yeah right.I had a MS6 before my si. I can show you my dyno sheets with intake and exhaust on my speed6 and the dyno a little more than the speed3's. I think I got 226hp and 270ft/lbs of torque. I have driven both, it seems as if you have no idea what you are talking about. I normally dont get involved like this, but seeing as I had one, i felt like I should set this one straight. Its not a amazingly engineered machine. It is on paper, but the heatsoak and ecu problems that plagued my ms6 and numerous others was too much to bear. They are quick cars but dont make them sound like they are of nicer quality then a honda because I have been there and that is a joke.

Sorry to sound blunt.. but are you dumb? I mean seriously.. the MS6 is NOT a MS3. MS6 suck.. which is why they can be had cheaper than a MS3 after discount. No one wants them. AWD = heavy loss of power through the drivetrain, whereas the MS3 only deals with FWD powertrain loss.

And yes, they ARE of nicer quality. And that's to be expected of a more expensive car. Go sit in one and you can see the interior is leagues beyond the SI. And this is coming from a Guy who has for the SI

To the other guy I'm too lazy to quote. I'm not saying that they routinely dyno at 250 whp stock. But.. go look at the big debate thread of SI vs MS3 on honda-tech. Two guys over tehre have dynos showing ~250 WHP STOCK and gains of up to ~20 WHP throughout the rev-range with just an intake.

Chip it and they will more than likely be sitting at 300-330 WHP. Don't mess with a turbo'd machine unless you plan on going turbo yourself.

And no, I don't need to go learn about the cars I'm talking about because I've Actually DRIVEN both, whereas guys who say the MS3 are junk, lower quality, ect. are basing that off pure speculation, whereas I've witnessed it personally.

[Blk4drSI]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

Sorry to sound blunt.. but are you dumb? I mean seriously.. the MS6 is NOT a MS3. MS6 suck.. which is why they can be had cheaper than a MS3 after discount. No one wants them. AWD = heavy loss of power through the drivetrain, whereas the MS3 only deals with FWD powertrain loss.

And yes, they ARE of nicer quality. And that's to be expected of a more expensive car. Go sit in one and you can see the interior is leagues beyond the SI. And this is coming from a Guy who has for the SI

To the other guy I'm too lazy to quote. I'm not saying that they routinely dyno at 250 whp stock. But.. go look at the big debate thread of SI vs MS3 on honda-tech. Two guys over tehre have dynos showing ~250 WHP STOCK and gains of up to ~20 WHP throughout the rev-range with just an intake.

Chip it and they will more than likely be sitting at 300-330 WHP. Don't mess with a turbo'd machine unless you plan on going turbo yourself.

And no, I don't need to go learn about the cars I'm talking about because I've Actually DRIVEN both, whereas guys who say the MS3 are junk, lower quality, ect. are basing that off pure speculation, whereas I've witnessed it personally.

OMG. Dude, give it a rest. I had a ms6 and they run slightly quicker 1/4 mile times than the ms3. And you say that they are crap, its has the same engine retard, lol. The base MS6 sells around the same as the MS3 because mazda didnt know who they were trying to sell the MS6 to. Its funny how your trying to tell me about a car that I had and loved until somebody decided to run a redlight. The MS3 traps faster than the ms6, but in bone stock form, the ms6 is quicker.(13.7 is the fastest stock that I know of). So you say that you know what your talking about because you "test drove" both, I have owned a ms6 and driven a ms3 before I decided on a Si.

[jonebone]

Well I got a MazdaSpeed6 as a rental car when my SI was in the shop. I only got the MS6 because my friend is the manager there and he held that car for me so I got lucky.

I dunno about the car you drove, but there is no way in hell that the MS6 runs 13.7 stock, even with a professional race car driver.

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by jonebone

Well I got a MazdaSpeed6 as a rental car when my SI was in the shop. I only got the MS6 because my friend is the manager there and he held that car for me so I got lucky.

I dunno about the car you drove, but there is no way in hell that the MS6 runs 13.7 stock, even with a professional race car driver.

You got an ms6 as a rental?!?? Where are you renting from?

And I agree with Blk4drSI on this one, because you're saying some seriously retarded stuff. The ms6 in the right hands can be very impressive, as will the ms3. But they are the same motor, same turbo, same intercooler, etc. etc. etc. just a different platform and drivetrain. You're right that it will lose some whp through the AWD system, but not as much as you're making it seem. It's similar to how the evo loses less through its drivetrain than the sti does.. not all of them subtract the same amount of power.

I'm glad that you stopped arguing about the ss/sc though, that's smart. Now all you need is to post up dyno's of ms3's laying 250whp stock and this 330whp making magical chip for the ms3. I know the aftermarket support is out there, but I've never heard of such gains for the ms3-6 off of just a chip. Understand that I am genuinly curious about the chip too, not trying to be a dick.

Anyways, ms3=ms6 under the hood.. If you think not then you must think that fg2's > fa5's, even though they have the same engine.

BTW, the ms6 was a lot nicer than the ms3 IMO.. the navi on the grand touring was nice, and the key to it was just badass.. not to mention the interior was nice by itself. I've crawled all over an ms6 and have looked in and out of an ms3 so please don't argue with that.. It's pointless to argue over someones opinion.

[edit]
Something interesting here..

Originally Posted by edmunds.com

Mazda's 2.3-liter turbocharged direct-injection four-cylinder engine, which is shared with the Mazdaspeed 6 and CX-7 crossover SUV, is the most significant change. In the 3 it's rated for 263 horsepower and 280 pound-feet of torque, 11 hp less than the Mazdaspeed 6. The torque rating is identical...
The change, according to Mazda engineers, is strictly a matter of differences in engine calibration. The engine, with the exception of insignificant intake and exhaust plumbing changes needed to make it fit the 3's smaller body, is identical to the Mazdaspeed 6 — right down to the vanes on the turbo wheels. Both cars use the same six-speed manual transmission although the front-wheel-drive 3 lacks the power take-off unit that sends drive to the rear wheels on the all-wheel-drive 6.

[Anubis]

Man these versus threads go NO WHERE. You will always have different opinions about certain cars, but the facts don't lie.

[firmhonda]

Uh oh, I've got more from edmunds..

Originally Posted by edmunds.com mazdaspeed3 test

At the drag strip, we recorded a 0-60 time of 5.9 seconds and a quarter-mile time of 14.2 seconds at 100 mph.

Link

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...8/pageNumber=1

Originally Posted by edmunds.com mazdaspeed6 vs. subaru legacy gt spec b test

Not surprisingly, the old girl had some get-up-and-go at our test track in Fontana, California, jumping from zero to 60 in a very respectable 6.1 seconds and blowing through the quarter-mile in 14.3 seconds at 95.7 mph.

link

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...7/pageNumber=2

As far as pitting the two against each other with equal drivers I don't think you can bench race any better than that. But to support your arguement, they also said that the ms3 killed the 1/4 over a second faster than the si.. and that time has been beaten several times by members of this site alone. I think a couple of 14.5's and 14.7's are floating around here.. not to mention a claimed 14.2 stock fg2. So if a car that edmunds got 15.2ish out of the 1/4 and good drivers, not professional can get almost a full second faster then you should be able to apply that to the ms6, right? So, if you take 0.8 off of the time of the ms6 (14.3) you have a 13.5.. Which sounds familiar, eh? Something like what the former ms6 owner in this thread mentioned.

[Blk4drSI]

When i went to the strip with my ms6 for the first time,(first time at a dragstrip period) my best was a 14.0 @ 98.5. And as for a magical chip, LOL, there wasnt such a thing. There was no engine managment out for it, just intake exhaust and stuff like that. But I would also like to see the "chip" that makes that takes the ms3's stock "250whp" and turns it into "330whp".

[audiophile]

ex>MS3<Rio

[vetkiller]

Whoever says that a MS3 is getting 250whp stock is so full of BS. I'm calling it right now. Maybe a dynapack or something like that in which case you are looking at hub....maybe. 250 = NO WAY! Stock SS/SC is only making like low 220s!

Put in a comptech or redshift and si toasts MS3.

Cams+I/H/E+KPRO and na si toasts MS3.

Stock for stock we can't keep up, but it's FI no? Come on.