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Old 01-21-2013, 08:33 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by XJEEP99 View Post
J series is a only a 60 degree single cam V6. If you want to compare a Honda V6 to some twin cam H or K series then look at the VTEC twin cam 90 degree C series. Actually compare it's efficiency to an H, because it came out over a decade before the K even existed. So that's not fair comparison. I'm saying you can't due weight per cc comparison when talking about a different type of engine. Look at the single cam 4 cylinders if you are comparing it to J series. Here we are in 2013, 1.8 liter B18 single cam Civic makes 140 hp.... Look at my J30a4 single cam that came out over a decade ago. More hp per liter then the B18.
Bisi ran 10's all motor with a D16 motor SOHC 4cyl 10+ years ago

D15B VTEC in 1992 had about 130ps from 1498cc - 86hp per liter

Steph P ran 8's in 2000 with an H22 he had been tweaking since 93-94
B16s made 170ps in 1988 106hp per liter
H22s made 220ps in 1992 100hp per liter
B18s made 200ps in 1996 111hp per liter
B16Bs made 185ps in 1997 115hp per liter
F20C made 240ps in 1999 120hp per liter

J30A4 made 240hp in 2004 80hp per liter

The SOHC D series from 1992 made more power per liter and thats on low compression of 9:1 while the J30 was on 10:1 so apples to apples the D15 probably would have picked up another 5-7hp with another point of comp putting it around 91hp per liter apples to apples

The limiting factor is mostly revs - being a V its not reving as high as the inline motors so its limited there - but I think with work you can spin it to 8 maybe 9k and then you will start to really see higher numbers comparable to the inline B/H motors

The K is really an F20C/H22 mashed together and modernized - huge ports, nice cams and nice comp - nice high rpm motor - The Ks dont make more than the Fs out of the box but they have more mid range thanks to the iVTEC system so they are better street motors - especially the lighter the car where that mid range pays huge dividends

Now no little 4cyl is going to have mid range like a J30 which is why this is good stuff - if you can build a J30 with top end to go with its huge midrange you can build a civic that can pull from any speed in any gear with 2000lbs and twice the torque or at least 60-70% more torque than similar 4cyl builds.

Im not saying its worthless to TRY to make a V6 motor better - Im saying its not going to be easy - just as it was not easy to get tiny 4cyl motors to break 300whp naturally aspirated

It took years and LOTS of teams trying to do it - break stuff - try it again.

The tricks the other Honda motors used will be needed if you guys hope to make any kind of power - its not rocket science but someone is going to have to spend their own money and TRY things to see what breaks when you tweak it to a higher state of tuning. Oil pump failures, snap'd rods, magled piston to valve contact, snapped cams, shredded timing belts/chains
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:30 PM   #42 (permalink)
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^ This man speaks the truth. The J is still in its infancy as far as potential is concerned.

There is one guy pushing 322/29x on all OEM parts (RL pistons for 11:1? CR) in a 3.5 build. He is supposedly doing cams and ported heads which should put him around ~360/320 or so (speculation). I don't believe he is spinning the motor past 7K though...so there is definitely more power to be had. However, with the rocker setup, the J is limited in terms of lift. I guess you could grind the base circle down more.....but doesn't that run into strength issues?

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Old 01-23-2013, 12:53 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Solid run. I didnt know accords trapped 103 with slight mods
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:02 PM   #44 (permalink)
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^ 104

And 106 in (-) DA lol.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:35 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Michael Foster
2006 Accord 6spd 13.57!

Very nice!


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Old 01-24-2013, 12:19 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 3.Slow6MT View Post
^ This man speaks the truth. The J is still in its infancy as far as potential is concerned.

There is one guy pushing 322/29x on all OEM parts (RL pistons for 11:1? CR) in a 3.5 build. He is supposedly doing cams and ported heads which should put him around ~360/320 or so (speculation). I don't believe he is spinning the motor past 7K though...so there is definitely more power to be had. However, with the rocker setup, the J is limited in terms of lift. I guess you could grind the base circle down more.....but doesn't that run into strength issues?
Web Cams can grind custom stuff - just bring money

The crazy NA B series guys eventually went to a roller rocker setup for consistent oil pressure in their high rpm builds that are spinning 11k rpm

Getting the V motors to 8 or 9k with roller rockers shouldnt be hard if the crank and girdle can hold it or are upgraded to match the new rpm window

Like I said its not rocket science but it does cost money to TRY stuff and thats the toughest thing - waiting for people to shell out cash and break their own setups learning what works and what is just up in smoke.

If that kid cracks 400+whp on that motor I think Js will be the new way for alot of guys --- the V motors just make so much more midrange for street cars - having a tire to put it down will be the biggest issue beyond power --- youll need to run a 3 pc front end for maybe 285 or 295 fronts



Here is the difference though -- whereas you will see a ton of civics with these front ends making 700+whp how many accords do you see with fender flares/slicks?

So you guys are the pioneers who can blaze a new trail with the accord chassis OR just drop a V motor in a civic shell and conduct your reseach in something more folks will take an interest in and perhaps drop a V motor in their civic to tinker with as well

To have people jump on your bandwagon you gotta have a good wagon lol the Civic chassis is hugely popular and has a deep pool of gearheads who may take an interest in your project if they see yours successful in a chassis they already race and spend money on

Just a thought

Honestly if you can build a street hatch at 2150lbs with this motor and crush the K series guys running high 9s in that class - youll have a TON of all motor guys wanting a V motor lol
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:07 AM   #47 (permalink)
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^ I agree. Unfortunately I don't have the skill or know-how to take on a build. Maybe in the future though, at some point. I totally see your point though. It could also help (though not as much) getting deep in the 12s in my chassis, considering the Civic's potential at 1000lbs lighter is much greater. There is one all motor 3.6L who ran 12.9 @110 on street tires about 25whp ago. He should be good for mid-low 12s @113 or so at this point. Another J32 swapped 6G Accord pulled a 13.0 @109, so the MPH is there.

The new J37 heads supposedly can be swapped on the 03+ blocks. They have VTEC on both the I/E side(s) and could potentially be an interesting swap. Of course, I'm sure they could be worked onto the cable throttle motor that the Civics use mostly (J32a2).
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:01 AM   #48 (permalink)
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^ I agree. Unfortunately I don't have the skill or know-how to take on a build. Maybe in the future though, at some point. I totally see your point though. It could also help (though not as much) getting deep in the 12s in my chassis, considering the Civic's potential at 1000lbs lighter is much greater. There is one all motor 3.6L who ran 12.9 @110 on street tires about 25whp ago. He should be good for mid-low 12s @113 or so at this point. Another J32 swapped 6G Accord pulled a 13.0 @109, so the MPH is there.

The new J37 heads supposedly can be swapped on the 03+ blocks. They have VTEC on both the I/E side(s) and could potentially be an interesting swap. Of course, I'm sure they could be worked onto the cable throttle motor that the Civics use mostly (J32a2).
Well there was a VQ35 build that made about 360-372whp recently on 300* cams with 13.5mm lift on 3.5L of displacement rev'ing to about 8k or so -- the problem with those motors is their oil pumps fail at high rpm --- also this is on a high compression build, ported heads with a 5 angle valve job, custom stepped headers AND jenvey ITBs

I think the Honda motors have better running gear and if a crappy VQ motor can get up there the J series should be able to top it or at least get close while offering a streetable setup --- the VQ couldnt hold enough vaccum to idle below 2k rpm -- with the ITBs its a little better but those cams and duration are no bueno for a street car/daily driver

VTEC will help you guys meld that extreme of crazy lift/duration with a low speed cam for idle/low speed operation

These are the ITBs they are running on the motor which are EFI compatible and V6 style -- Im sure something similar could be mocked up for the J series
These throttle bodies would uncork the motor once other supporting mods are in place - especially cams --- otherwise youll have to fool around with custom plennums and that takes a LONG time to get perfect - its possible - just alot of time and effort/dyno time to perfect.

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Old 01-25-2013, 10:31 AM   #49 (permalink)
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^ Don't get me wrong, that's sick...but the K has made more power than that lol.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:07 PM   #50 (permalink)
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^ Don't get me wrong, that's sick...but the K has made more power than that lol.
You are forgetting about the TORQUE lol the midrange and overall torque of a 3 to 3.5L motor is going to dwarf that of a 2.4-2.6L apples to apples-- they may make more PEAK whp but its the area under the curve thats the real juicy bit for this option once its worked out - hell you can add some cubes to the 3.5L motors lol get them to 3.8-4.1L status lol and make all the 350z NA guys jealous lol
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:49 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Lol yea I know, I would've thought the 3.5L should make more power than the K though, in 2.4 or 2.6L. Just shows that the K is a damn beast!
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:20 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Holy hell you trapped 106.6 in an NA J30?

I didn't know they went like that.. like 6mph off a new 5.Blow
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:13 PM   #53 (permalink)
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^ Yea but in 30 degree temps. In sea level conditions, it should be mid 104 car, maybe 105. Once it's tuned I should trap mid 105s-106 I'm hoping.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:19 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Yeah it's a few mph off a 5.0, but in that same weather i think a 5.0 would've probably been trapping 110+.

5.0's are nothing to **** with.

"sonnick", i think it's time for you to stop ******* with n/a and run a 75 shot and see what it can do
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:32 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Yeah it's a few mph off a 5.0, but in that same weather i think a 5.0 would've probably been trapping 110+.

5.0's are nothing to **** with.

"sonnick", i think it's time for you to stop ******* with n/a and run a 75 shot and see what it can do
No reason like that to go to a J32 bottom end
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