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The Official HPDE / Track Thread

237K views 3K replies 131 participants last post by  otrtkennedy 
#1 · (Edited)
I've been noticing the AutoX thread lately and just noticed there was no official Track / HPDE threads, mostly threads from MikeJ that get a lot of attention. So I think this should be the official Track / HPDE talk and chat thread.

I'll attempt to post up any links I find here that relate to this thread so they're easily found.

Good Thread with a little chat and good recommendations.
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/auto...ing-more-serious-into-racing-suggestions.html

Phenomenal Oil Thread, READ the thread from the Ferrari Forums!
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/autocross-sanctioned-drag-racing/192582-racing-oil-clarify-learn.html

Our Brake Upgrade Options
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/suspension-brakes/62478-brake-options.html

TSX Brake Swap
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/suspension-brakes/140394-tsx-brake-swap-upgrade.html

FA5 brake ducts
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/suspension-brakes/265794-fa5-brake-ducts.html

Speed Bleeders for Brakes
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/do-y...utch-bleeding-speed-bleeder-installation.html

Good Suspension Thread (For serious suspension not junk coil overs)
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/susp...pension-vs-koni-swift-springs-suspension.html

List of Coil-over options (I would add Both sets of Godspeed coil-overs to this list as well.)

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/suspension-brakes/72054-coil-over-options-06-civic.html
Next I'll give a little info about myself and it would be cool if we could copy the AutoX thread and get little introductions on people.

Name: Alex
Cars: 2009 Civic Si (Just a progress sway bar on it), 1998 BMW M3 Sedan (Track Rat)
Info: This will be my second track season and will be my first with the Civic, last year I had the pleasure to drive at New Hampshire International Speedway, and Watkins Glen, in a number of different e36's.

So who are the other track rats on the forum?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Good idea. I am planning to get into lapping days at our local track (Mid America Motorplex). However, I'm going to be running my EJ6 that I just picked up. I might try the FA5 eventually, but I'd rather keep it as a daily. I've always wanted to run at a track and I just might get that chance this year.

Whoops, forgot the car's specs:

Cars:
2007 Honda Civic Si - aftercooled s/c and E85, progress springs & konis, progress RSB, other stuff
1999 Honda Civic DX Hatchback (EJ6) - b16 swap, ground-control/konis (400/500), Suspension Techniques front & rear sway bars, lots of other stuff

Info: Mid America Motorplex, possibly other Midwest tracks if it goes well
 
#5 ·
Im maybe a week away from having the $ for HFP suspension, but i also would like to get a few different cheaper things like rsb, pads, fluid, lines, etc.. And I'd rather koni/ground control or redshift but im not sure if its worth the extra money performance wise. I could give a **** looks wise, the only person that will notice is me and im more of a function over form kinda person
 
#6 ·
Well how far into your track life are you? If you're just starting out you can say heck to the suspension and invest you money into really getting the car ready, aka a good set of pads, proper brake fluid, SS lines, and a good alignment. I have yet to take my Civic on the track but front what I've read the biggest issue is the alignment in over steer. Look into alignment specs and with maybe some 30$ camber bolts and the right specs you can get way more performance than a RSB is worth.

You can also use some cash to get yourself a good track day box, so a nice aluminum jack, jack stands, tire pressure gear etc.

What tires are you on now? The first thing you'll out drive in this car are the stock pads and tires.
 
#12 ·
What tires are you on now? The first thing you'll out drive in this car are the stock pads and tires.
For sure. Luckily, I didn't reach the limits of the stock brakes on my FG2, but my first weekend of HPDE absolutely murdered the stock all-season front tires.

My car: 2011 FG2
Wheels/Tires: Kosei K1 TS (14lbs each!). Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
Suspension: HFP kit (not yet installed)
Brakes: Still OEM. I'm leaning towards Hawk HP+ pads, possibly SS lines as well
 
#7 ·
1 auto-x and no HPDE/track, a good amount of go karting lol but thats completely different.

Pads and fluid are already first on the list, ss lines im not sure about. How much of a difference do they really make? Also, how much does resurfacing for new pads cost?

I dont want to put in camber bolts until i actually get an alignment which i dont want to do until i change something in the suspension lol, ill see how much an alignment is

Ordering jacks from amazon w/ the brake stuff, i just use a normal tire pressure gauge, not a fancy one

Im still on stock tires but they'll be done within the next 2 autox's, and i figure i might learn how to drive the car better with the low limits of these sh*t all seasons
 
#9 ·
Okay so driver mod will be the first, good! You're On the right track and good pads / fluid will set you up for a nice track day, pads will go fast no matter how you are on the track these cars just eat pads because of the heat. If you plan on continuing the track life foresee tsx or accord calipers / rotors in the very near future. Till then save up and eat every track day possible! It's addictive!


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app
 
#8 ·
Hey I'm Matt from Tennessee

2008 FG2 stock except SS lines.
Tires: Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec
Brake Pad opinion:
Front: It is hopeless to run the stock setup, need more mass or more cooling. I ran 1600F pads and they overheated and self destructed in a day. I will be running Cobalt XR2's this season.
Rear: Hawk HP+ pads have been great. Still tons of life on them.


I've done 2 HPDE's and a season of AutoX at Road Atlanta and VIR
I post some YouTube videos of my driving on LostBoysProduction Channel

I'm looking to go to Atlanta Motorsports Park this season, as well as continue to autox.

I'm also working on a novel brake duct. Once completed I'll start a thread on it. (hopefully it will work!)
 
#10 ·
car: 07 fa5
Tires: Always changing lol, currently on federal rsr 225/40 on 18x8.5 pf01. Going to a 17x8.5/7.5 reverse stagger on ce28. Tires arnt on them yet however. Likely getting 255/225 rs3.
Suspension: Skunk2 pro-c w/ 14k rear springs. Progress rear sway. SPC v2 rear camber. PCI front lca spherical bushings going on soon. Be the first 8th with them :). LMK if anyone is interested in them, i'm in touch with the owner of PCI.
Brakes: dc5 brembos up front w/ project mu club racer. Stoptech rear pads. Motul RBF600.
Have bolt ons and flashpro w/ a base map. Clutch Masters fx200 and hybrid racing CMC.

Track at mainly buttonwillow and streets of willow here in southern cali. Planning to change to ASR's custom kw v3 suspension using ASR camber plates and hyper coil springs.

Random interior mods, and slight amount of aero. 4" front splitter with a 1" air dam is in the works. Splitter will be 2.5" off the ground when complete. Should help a great deal at buttonwillow where there are quite a few high speed turns.

Weee i hope this thread turns out well.
 
#16 ·
Sounds like a very good deal if you go this route let me know how it is, if they're porsche style it literally takes 2 minutes to change pads, I kid you not it's so easy, you don't have to remove the caliper. just a backing plate and done.

Yes accord and tsx brake caliper, pad, and rotors are the same specs.
 
#17 ·
I may because it's so cheap and if i dont have to remove the caliper then changing out at track days will be a piece of cake. I've read other places that these dynalite calipers are really quick to change out pads.
I think with this and the brake ducting i can use a dual purpose such as stoptech street performance or whatever wilwood offers. Oh and these fit over stock wheels too, i may run 5mm or 10mm spacers (whichever are hubcentric) just in case
 
#19 ·
Decided to go with tsx swap. All oem parts are so much more reliable, plus i have wayyyyyyy more pad options. I think it should do fine. Calipers are 90 each, 50 for shims, then ill get ss lines, stoptech street performance pads, and have my uncle order some powerslot rotors for me.

Si lines(stock or ss) bolt up correct?
Also, do you know if there is anything else I need?
 
#20 ·
Decided to go with tsx swap. All oem parts are so much more reliable, plus i have wayyyyyyy more pad options.
Good, I just read through the entire thread, and was going to point out that the Wilwood setup for our cars might cause you some headaches. I knew a guy who used to have an Si as his track car (before he upgraded to an E90 M3, lucky prick) and I believe he had Wilwood calipers on his car (or Stoptech, can't remember exactly) that didn't fit under the OEM wheels. The issue was lateral clearance, the inside of the wheel spokes made contact with the side of the caliper.

That's why he ended up with 3 sets of Kosei wheels (one of which he sold me), for winter, summer, and track days. I almost bought the brakes off of him, but decided against it because I'd rather not be at the mercy of the tire shops when the weather gets bad. Granted, not everyone has these problems, but be sure to factor in the cost of new wheels (and the hassle of test-fitting them) if you decide to go with aftermarket fixed calipers.
 
#22 ·
No new wheels here, im planning on spending as little as possible on this car while still being track ready, fun, and reliable. So tsx swap is a no-brainer, along with HFP suspension.
I added it all up:
180 (calipers) + 50(shims) + 165(ebc ultimax, powerslot at a discounted price, or brembo blanks up front stock rears) + 110(Stoptech pads) + 100(SS lines from corsport) + 30(motul RBF600 = 635
Plus, shims arent even necessary
And, i kinda like the look of the big oem calipers over an aftermarket bbk
There are oe replacement calipers for like 50 each as well
 
#27 ·
Could you please refrain from comments like this? Everyone has there own cup of tea when it comes to the driving world and autoX is a huge group, it also teaches you invaluable skills that can transfer very well to hpde's. I would like this thread to stay open for awhile so please refrain from bashing other types of driving, racing what ever.


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app
 
#28 ·
Thanks for starting this thread, I think the section under CIVIC TECHNICAL titled Autocross & Sanctioned Drag Racing needs a more all-encompassing representation to include Rally Sport, Road Racing (the legal version), and TT... if anyone can contact one of the mods that would be wonderful.

From my experience, I think every driver who gets on a road course needs to do so with as little improvement to the car as possible for the first few times. Understanding the limits of the driver is by far the most important aspect of building a foundation. The car is limited by 3 main things: The Driver, The Conditions, and the Car.

As you get comfortable with your driving ability, you will also be getting comfortable pushing the car. as you get comfortable pushing the car, you will begin to learn it's limitations (ie. brakes, sway, traction, etc.). To keep the driver's learning progression in line, he/she should begin to make improvements to the car in areas they find more limiting. You might first see your brakes fading or fluid boiling as you get more comfortable diving into turns faster and faster - thus throw on some upgrades. You might also notice that you aren't quite comfortable keeping a lot of speed going into a turn but enjoy sprinting at the apex and shooting out. Your tires could be holding you back from exiting with a smooth transition - thus swap for something stickier.

Learn your limits and then learn the cars limits.

With that said, I ran RBF 600 fluid with HP+ pads up front and HPS pads in the back at the end of last year without an issue but the air was cold and it wasn't a full day on the track. Direzza Star Specs are extremely cost effective and wondrous in the rain. The HFP suspension is more than suitable for now. A thicker sway bar is an option later this summer once I reconvene with the car's limitations.

I'll be running with 18x7.5 Mugen GPs this season (vs. stock wheels last season) with 225/45/18 Direzzas which will increase my COG by 0.5 inches so that should be interesting...
 
#29 ·
Yetti, what made you choose the 225/45/18 over the 225/40/18? Per Tirerack the 225/45/18 diameter difference is .9 inches more than the 40, costs $7/tire more and weighs more to boot. Just wondering if you're trying to manipulate gearing or whatnot because on paper, there's absolutely no advantage to the 45.
 
#30 ·
Daily Driver.

I hit potholes every day. Not trying to bend my fresh Mugens.

On paper, there's no advantage of throwing 225/45s on the stock wheels but you'll often find more track oriented guys doing that. Just need to make up for the added friction with a little more power and balanced weight transfer.
 
#33 ·
I completely agree with the sentiments of upgrading the driver before the car, but even as a beginner I would make sure you at least have a set of fresh pads on the front and probably some higher temp pads and fluid before venturing onto a road course.

Anyone who does a single day on track in a stock car will immediately give up all thoughts of more power and stiffer suspension when they realize how quickly stock, and in particular worn stock brakes overheat and stop working properly (worn pads overheat much more quickly since they have less mass).

I managed to overheat my stock pads at an autocross once there were down to about 30%, and they did not last 2 laps on track... As suggested above, no need to go all out on a big brake kit, but I would say some brakes prep is mandatory for both safety and fun (lifting off halfway down the straight to cool the brakes enough by the next corner is not fun).

The next mod should be front crash bolts (or camber bolts) and a good alignment. Without that, you'll be eating tire edges and have a car very much biased towards understeer, particularly in slower corners. It is up to the driver to correct the understeer (get the weight on the nose), but it's still more fun to have a more neutral balance to play with :)

After those, tires and then I'm a big fan of flashpro, even on a stock car for the improved throttle response, before moving on to suspension, lighter wheels and lastly, more power :)
 
#35 ·
I've got 225/45 star specs on the stock wheels right now. The mugens are going to be my DD/track wheels this year just as the stock ones filled that role last year. next year I plan to have my track dedicated wheels after the suspension gets some work. That's when I will be focusing more heavily on refining the car. This is all happening in conjunction with driver improvement. I prefer a slower pace than most folk on here.
 
#37 ·
The HFP suspension if perfectly fine for the track. I know a lot of people will throw on a thicker rear sway but I prefer to utilize that as one of the finishing touches to the suspension, not a temporary solution. Other than that, adjustable coil overs and extended ball joints are the next steps along with camber "repair" (obviously).

For this year, I will be identifying weaknesses in the area of braking.

Here's a tease:

 
#38 ·
Good to hear
I see what your saying. I dont really want to put on only a rear for hpde/road course stuff as i feel like the car is fairly neutral already and id rather put on a progress rear and an eibach front bar. Then the rear end stiffness will still have increased more than the front, but not as much. Then id swap the stock bar in for autox.

What dampers are you planning on running with coilovers? And I know that the extended ball joints bring the roll center closer to the center of gravity, but does that have any benefits if you're not lowered over 1.5 inches?

:eek:mg: Nice setup
 
#47 ·
Looking at the Tein Monoflex w/EDFC.

Some can make the argument for and against the extended ball joints. I only mentioned them purely as an interest item down the road. Far too early to tell if I will even notice a slop in turning once I move forward with the Tein setup. I'm only trying to change what I can tell is holding me back, not building a track car that i have to learn to drive.
 
#39 · (Edited)
I found out that tire rack sells everything i need, which is great because i thought that i was going to have to order off multiple sites for this setup. They dont sell motul although they have ATE superblue and type 200. I realized that motul will absorb moisture quicker and therefore need to be flushed more often and will reach its wet boiling point sooner, making them somewhat equal. Is it worth spending a little more and ordering from somewhere else for the motul?

Edit: Castrol SRF? Wet boiling point of 520 F!!! But 60$/1L
 
#40 ·
Anyone here hate car meets but love the paddock at track days where you can relate to people and discuss actual performance modifications? I DO !

Just got on my reverse stagger setup, 17x7.5 55ot and 17x8.5 38ot. So far on freeway on ramps, it feels WONDERFUL. Car is a little tail happy if i don't stay hard on the throttle, but if i do there are no issues.
 
#43 ·
Spot on, I love chilling on the paddock.

Does anybody know if 16" rims will clear our stock brakes? I'm thinking about a set of stock regular civic wheels for track wheels? If those don't worry I'll just but another set of stockers.




Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app
 
#41 ·
OP: Nice idea for this thread!

I'm relearning how my car behaves with the Koni/Neuspeed sport combo, and BC lower balls. And if I'm really lucky, a used set of Motegi Traklites will pass my inspection this week that I found at a stupid low price (better not be cracked!) and I'll be wrapping my Star Specs around them instead of the stockies.

EVO driving school for sure this spring to test the limits, and always happy to embarrass myself knocking over cones!
 
#52 ·
I have the Tracklite V2s in 17x8+45. ~14.5 lbs. Forged. Good stuff!


Spot on, I love chilling on the paddock.

Does anybody know if 16" rims will clear our stock brakes? I'm thinking about a set of stock regular civic wheels for track wheels? If those don't worry I'll just but another set of stockers.

Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app
They will clear.


Name: Jason
Cars: 2007 Civic Si Sedan (DD & track)
Car spec:

Engine:
Injen CAI / KRRH / Invidia Q300 / Flashpro + tune / Magnaflow HFC

Suspension:
GO Pwr Coilovers (8k/10k)
Ingalls F&R camber kit
Progress RSB

Brakes:
TL-S Brembo
TL-S rotor (centric blank)
Stoptech Street (DD) , Carbotech XP-12 (Track)
Hawk HP+ (rears)
Goodridge SS lines
Motul RBF600
Custom Brake Ducting

Wheels:
17x9+35 (255 Hankook RS3) Fronts
17x8+35 (225 Hankook RS3) Rear

Future mods:
Oil cooler (in process)
Kaaz 1.5 LSD
Type R Final Drive Gear Set
Clutch & Flywheel Set

Where you would find me:
Buttonwillow, Willow Springs, Socal tracks
Should've gone to SoW last Sunday. If your prediction of shaving a second off your time bore fruit, you would've taken 1st in street. Top time was a high 1:29. I won't mention who took 1st in mod1. :giggle:

Looking at the Tein Monoflex w/EDFC.

Some can make the argument for and against the extended ball joints. I only mentioned them purely as an interest item down the road. Far too early to tell if I will even notice a slop in turning once I move forward with the Tein setup. I'm only trying to change what I can tell is holding me back, not building a track car that i have to learn to drive.
I've enjoyed tracking on my Monoflex. I know it's only single adjustable but it seems to get the job done. Previous tracking on HFP was fine as well except for long, sustained G sweepers where it seemed like I could reach out the window and touch the ground thanks to the roll... Cost to performance ratio easily goes to HFP though.

Seems like the roll center adjusters are good for cars lowered 1.5 inches or lower. At the same time the general consensus is that anything lower than 1.5 inches is detrimental to handling on the 8th gen platform. So it's on that thin line where it's usefulness is still in question.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Name: Jason
Cars: 2007 Civic Si Sedan (DD & track)
Car spec:

Engine:
Injen CAI / KRRH / Invidia Q300 / Flashpro + tune / Magnaflow HFC

Suspension:
GO Pwr Coilovers (8k/10k)
Ingalls F&R camber kit
Progress RSB

Brakes:
TL-S Brembo
TL-S rotor (centric blank)
Stoptech Street (DD) , Carbotech XP-12 (Track)
Hawk HP+ (rears)
Goodridge SS lines
Motul RBF600
Custom Brake Ducting

Wheels:
17x9+35 (255 Hankook RS3) Fronts
17x8+35 (225 Hankook RS3) Rear

Future mods:
Oil cooler (in process)
Kaaz 1.5 LSD
Type R Final Drive Gear Set
Clutch & Flywheel Set

Where you would find me:
Buttonwillow, Willow Springs, Socal tracks
 
#54 ·
Name: Jason
Cars: 2007 Civic Si Sedan (DD & track)
Car spec:

Engine:
Injen CAI / KRRH / Invidia Q300 / Flashpro + tune / Magnaflow HFC

Suspension:
GO Pwr Coilovers (8k/10k)
Ingalls F&R camber kit
Progress RSB

Brakes:
TL-S Brembo
TL-S rotor (centric blank)
Stoptech Street (DD) , Carbotech XP-12 (Track)
Hawk HP+ (rears)
Goodridge SS lines
Motul RBF600
Custom Brake Ducting

Wheels:
17x9+35 (255 Hankook RS3) Fronts
17x8+35 (225 Hankook RS3) Rear

Future mods:
Oil cooler (in process)
Kaaz 1.5 LSD
Type R Final Drive Gear Set
Clutch & Flywheel Set

Where you would find me:
Buttonwillow, Willow Springs, Socal tracks

I'm in the process of designing a brake ducting system for my FG2, would you mind explaining how you did yours?
 
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