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Old 02-22-2012, 09:09 PM   #101 (permalink)
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StarSpec vs Toyo R1R and RA1 - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums
The price difference is about 180$ though, which may be enough to justify using the R1R

Yeah this is my only car so i think koni is the better way to go
Check out the "track brakes setup... that works" thread

If your in RI, do you know of a shop called the enthusiast?
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:14 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlackFA522 View Post
StarSpec vs Toyo R1R and RA1 - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums
The price difference is about 180$ though, which may be enough to justify using the R1R

Yeah this is my only car so i think koni is the better way to go
Check out the "track brakes setup... that works" thread

If your in RI, do you know of a shop called the enthusiast?
those tires arent even in the same "class"
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:16 PM   #103 (permalink)
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those tires arent even in the same "class"
I kinda figured that when there wasnt very much on google when i typed in star spec vs R1R. I mean if you type in star spec vs R-S3 you get a million threads.
What tire would you suggest for dd and track? Not r-comps
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:28 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Been on both R1Rs and DDZ1SS soooooo,

At the time...

HFP Suspension and nothing else a.k.a. no camber adjustment.

225/45/17 R1R

Teh bad:

Crap response, crap wear, feathered badly, fell off like a brick when heated. Needs a metric (yes, metric. 10% moar!) F__k-ton of camber to offset any of the above...and it still won't.

Le good:

Good on road noise, absorbed impact well, and once you got over the initial lack of response at turn in plus the sidewall squirm it had very good grip on long sustained G sweepers.

Personally would not get again.



DDZ1SS 225/45/17s and 235/40/17

Teh good:

Above average response(aka WAY better than R1R), handles low heat and high heat admirably, wears a bit better than the R1Rs, Stiff sidewall doesn't require as much camber.

Le bad:

Usually more expensive than R1R, Only TireRack has them, Does not ride as comfortable, gets pretty loud as they wear.

On my 8th set combined and it won't be my last!

Last edited by vf1si; 02-23-2012 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:00 AM   #105 (permalink)
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I kinda figured that when there wasnt very much on google when i typed in star spec vs R1R. I mean if you type in star spec vs R-S3 you get a million threads.
What tire would you suggest for dd and track? Not r-comps
If you have the money, I suggest running two sets of rims with DD tires and track tires.

I have never used any r comps since I'm no where near that level yet. I want to be able to drive fast on street tires before switching over.

Following vf1si's layout

Hankook RS3

Le Good:

CHEAP! Very sticky when hot. Feathers good with correct alignment


BAD:

Soft sidewall (you need to run a lot of camber to offset this , I have -3.5 up front)

Wears quickly on smaller sizing (225s)

Road noise? no idea, I have engine mounts


Would I buy it again?

Yes! Went through 10 - 225, 2 - 235, 4 - 235
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:17 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Okay so star spec wins again
I have the money but I'd rather put it in my bank or into other stuff on the car because I can run star specs on the street
These will be autox tires as well so R-S3's probably wont do nearly as well as the star spec
They work really well on light cars with double wishbone suspension and great camber curves.. not us
I want to run stock class autox for a while: koni all around, progress rsb, crash bolts

vf1si: do you think the 235 is worth the extra money over the 225? over the 215?
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:08 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Hey guys - love the idea of this thread. I used to post a couple of years ago about track days, but not many people did them.

2008 Civic Si
K&N SRI
Vibrant Header w/ HFC <--planned
Hondata FlashPro <-- planned
Koni Sport + Neuspeed Sport/Progress Sport <-- planned, still deciding on springs
17x7 G-Games 77W w/ 225/45 NT01 (track)
17x7 wheels w/ 225/45 Hankook RS3 (AutoX) <--planned, Star Specs if I can't find the RS3
DBA 4000 rotors
Carbotech XP12/XP8
Brembo LCF600 fluid

I've been running completely stock since I got the car (except for brakes). This is the first year that I'm modifying it, hence all the <--planned tags.



Shameless plug: My buddy (MS3) and I run our own racing team, Liquid Dinosaur Racing. Check us out on Facebook and Youtube, and make sure you hit like!

We run with EMRA for Time Trials (Lime Rock Park, Summit Point, NJMP) and NYR-SCCA for Autocross.

Anybody have any experience with Neuspeed Sport or Progress Sport springs? My car is also a daily driver, so the 1.6" drop of the Neuspeeds scares me a little bit - and I figure the Progress Sport would be an improvement over stock.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:38 AM   #108 (permalink)
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I just did the Neuspeed sports, and my car is still DD. Drop was right at 1.5". Stiffer for sure, but with the Koni yellows on full soft its very comfortable. I wasn't looking for slamming the car at all (could care less) but heard so many positive things about this particular spring/damper combo for performance driving that i had to do it, esp. since I wanted to reduce what I thought for me was too much body roll. Check out this thread for more info, opinions, etc.

Redshiftmotorsports koni/neuspeed sport springs review.

Chris at Redshift is very informed, excellent service, pretty local to us (northern PA).
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:50 AM   #109 (permalink)
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the anonymous Si driver.
IMO, Progress Sports can be pretty low, also (lower than 1.3" and 1.2"). My exhaust got kind of banged up last summer, but I do have the Full Race 3", and it kind of sits low at some spots. I'll maybe get some pics once I get this car back together.

If you don't want low, the only real option is coilovers or HFP. The rest will vary.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:44 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Thanks for the feedback, guys. In the link, Gabo said:

Quote:
I was initially concerned this suspension would be too harsh. I have a ten month old daughter whose comfort was important to me. On full soft this setup will outperform the stock suspension while still maintaining a level of comfort slightly stiffer than stock. I had my wife, daughter, mom and sister in the car and none of them notice the additional stiffness.
That's probably the best thing I can read about it. I'll be in a similar situation before long. Now I'll need to double check how much space is under the car when I enter my driveway.

And it looks like I'll be ordering from Redshift.

jrickerm, which group do you go to the tracks with?
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:53 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Connecticut Autocross & Rally Team (CART) does a few track days each year at Lime Rock, and Pocono (N and S), sometimes Monticello (didn't see it on the schedule yet for 2012 though). We had 5 @ 20 min. sessions, plus time trials last fall at Lime Rock. In a monsoon, but still.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:31 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RR-Si08 View Post
Hey guys - love the idea of this thread. I used to post a couple of years ago about track days, but not many people did them.

2008 Civic Si
K&N SRI
Vibrant Header w/ HFC <--planned
Hondata FlashPro <-- planned
Koni Sport + Neuspeed Sport/Progress Sport <-- planned, still deciding on springs
17x7 G-Games 77W w/ 225/45 NT01 (track)
17x7 wheels w/ 225/45 Hankook RS3 (AutoX) <--planned, Star Specs if I can't find the RS3
DBA 4000 rotors
Carbotech XP12/XP8
Brembo LCF600 fluid

I've been running completely stock since I got the car (except for brakes). This is the first year that I'm modifying it, hence all the <--planned tags.

image


Shameless plug: My buddy (MS3) and I run our own racing team, Liquid Dinosaur Racing. Check us out on Facebook and Youtube, and make sure you hit like!

We run with EMRA for Time Trials (Lime Rock Park, Summit Point, NJMP) and NYR-SCCA for Autocross.

Anybody have any experience with Neuspeed Sport or Progress Sport springs? My car is also a daily driver, so the 1.6" drop of the Neuspeeds scares me a little bit - and I figure the Progress Sport would be an improvement over stock.
Check out the new swift spec-r. There is also ground control sleeves w/ custom linear rates, and you can set it at any height you'd like so that you would have no trouble DD.

How do you like the carbotechs? I have a friend who runs them on his M3 at homestead, PBIR, sebring, etc and loves them.
I was also thinking of running the brembo fluid, but its much more expensive than ATE and i figured if im paying that much, i might as well run castrol SRF. Do you have to change the LCF600 as much as motul or castrol?

I liked your page on facebook!

Last edited by BlackFA522; 02-23-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:37 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlackFA522 View Post
Check out the new swift spec-r. There is also ground control sleeves w/ custom linear rates, and you can set it at any height you'd like so that you would have no trouble DD.

How do you like the carbotechs? I have a friend who runs them on his M3 at homestead, PBIR, sebring, etc and loves them.
I was also thinking of running the brembo fluid, but its much more expensive than ATE and i figured if im paying that much, i might as well run castrol SRF. Do you have to change the LCF600 as much as motul or castrol?

I liked your page on facebook!
I'll have to take a look at the Swift setup. One thing that drew me to Redshift's Koni/Neuspeed combo was the price - not a whole lot more than HFP, yet cheaper than cheap coilovers.

The Carbotechs are good - I feel like the harder you push them, the better they get, particularly with the XP10s. This will be my first year with XP12 - I've run XP8, then XP10. I kept on killing pads at the track - OEM -> Hawk HPS -> XP8 -> XP10 - I've overheated them all (the XP10s warped the backing at Summit Point). I kept boiling my fluid too, which drew me to the Brembo stuff. I do believe that I am hard on the brakes, but I also think the OEM setup is way too weak for the weight + power.

One thing I didn't mention in that list is the titanium shims I run on the inner pad to help protect the fluid, which is why I think the XP10 backing ended up looking like a banana. And yes, they solved the fluid issues I was having. I've said for years that I want to set up brake ducts, but haven't had the time, so instead I just keep upping my pad compound.

The one strange thing about the carbotech pads is they tend to leave a strange streaking pattern on the rotors - I'll have to find a picture to show what I mean.

The other thing is that I haven't used any other track pad, so I'm not sure how they compare to something like the Hawk Blues.

---and thanks for the like!----

Last edited by RR-Si08; 02-23-2012 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:38 PM   #114 (permalink)
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--repost--
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:52 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I thought Project Mu Club Racers were the **** until I tried Carbotechs XP-12.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:23 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlackFA522 View Post
Okay so star spec wins again
I have the money but I'd rather put it in my bank or into other stuff on the car because I can run star specs on the street
These will be autox tires as well so R-S3's probably wont do nearly as well as the star spec
They work really well on light cars with double wishbone suspension and great camber curves.. not us
I want to run stock class autox for a while: koni all around, progress rsb, crash bolts

vf1si: do you think the 235 is worth the extra money over the 225? over the 215?
Yes. Unless comfort and rim protection are high on your priority list. The taller 45 sidewall will absorb impact better (from potholes etc.) than the 40. Otherwise, the 235/40 is lighter, wider, and doesn't mess with your speedo or gearing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cambodianricer View Post
I thought Project Mu Club Racers were the **** until I tried Carbotechs XP-12.
I liked the Club Racers too...Haven't tried the Carbotechs but they were next on the list. I know you're the only one who'll appreciate this since we've both had our brake issues but when I pulled 1:27.9 at SoW CCW I was on BP10s...Yeah, 10s. They're Wilwoods Hawk HPS equivalent. I don't even know what to think anymore regarding brakes. Lol.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:07 PM   #117 (permalink)
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The one strange thing about the carbotech pads is they tend to leave a strange streaking pattern on the rotors - I'll have to find a picture to show what I mean.
If I remember correctly, this was from the first time I mounted my XP10s. I had already gone through a set of XP8s.

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Old 02-24-2012, 12:30 AM   #118 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RR-Si08 View Post
I'll have to take a look at the Swift setup. One thing that drew me to Redshift's Koni/Neuspeed combo was the price - not a whole lot more than HFP, yet cheaper than cheap coilovers.

The Carbotechs are good - I feel like the harder you push them, the better they get, particularly with the XP10s. This will be my first year with XP12 - I've run XP8, then XP10. I kept on killing pads at the track - OEM -> Hawk HPS -> XP8 -> XP10 - I've overheated them all (the XP10s warped the backing at Summit Point). I kept boiling my fluid too, which drew me to the Brembo stuff. I do believe that I am hard on the brakes, but I also think the OEM setup is way too weak for the weight + power.

One thing I didn't mention in that list is the titanium shims I run on the inner pad to help protect the fluid, which is why I think the XP10 backing ended up looking like a banana. And yes, they solved the fluid issues I was having. I've said for years that I want to set up brake ducts, but haven't had the time, so instead I just keep upping my pad compound.

The one strange thing about the carbotech pads is they tend to leave a strange streaking pattern on the rotors - I'll have to find a picture to show what I mean.

The other thing is that I haven't used any other track pad, so I'm not sure how they compare to something like the Hawk Blues.

---and thanks for the like!----
The swifts will run you just over 100 more than the neuspeeds i believe, worth it? I have no idea as I havent tried both setups, but chris at redshift knows what he's talking about and he recommends the neuspeed/koni.

Which of the carbotechs can you DD and which can you not DD?
What fluid were you using?
I've been day dreaming about brake ducts for a while as well, and will eventually do it idk when

Your welcome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cambodianricer View Post
I thought Project Mu Club Racers were the **** until I tried Carbotechs XP-12.
Arent the project mu's really really expensive? I though i saw around 200 just for the fronts but i may be mistaken.
Carbotech is expensive too lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by vf1si View Post
Yes. Unless comfort and rim protection are high on your priority list. The taller 45 sidewall will absorb impact better (from potholes etc.) than the 40. Otherwise, the 235/40 is lighter, wider, and doesn't mess with your speedo or gearing.



I liked the Club Racers too...Haven't tried the Carbotechs but they were next on the list. I know you're the only one who'll appreciate this since we've both had our brake issues but when I pulled 1:27.9 at SoW CCW I was on BP10s...Yeah, 10s. They're Wilwoods Hawk HPS equivalent. I don't even know what to think anymore regarding brakes. Lol.

235 it is then!
I was thinking of doing the wilwood bbk a few weeks back, but i wasnt sure of the pad options available for them besides the BP10 and BP20, which i dont know what it compares to.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:49 AM   #119 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by vf1si View Post


I liked the Club Racers too...Haven't tried the Carbotechs but they were next on the list. I know you're the only one who'll appreciate this since we've both had our brake issues but when I pulled 1:27.9 at SoW CCW I was on BP10s...Yeah, 10s. They're Wilwoods Hawk HPS equivalent. I don't even know what to think anymore regarding brakes. Lol.
It either the carbotechs or performance friction. My friend had spare used set for his evo (which fits on the TL-S brembo) and I tried it out for a track day and loved it. Then I bought a brand new set!

Thats right, you're on the wilwood brake setup. Carbotech does make a pad for that caliper too !

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFA522 View Post

Which of the carbotechs can you DD and which can you not DD?
What fluid were you using?
I've been day dreaming about brake ducts for a while as well, and will eventually do it idk when

Your welcome!



Arent the project mu's really really expensive? I though i saw around 200 just for the fronts but i may be mistaken.
Carbotech is expensive too lol




235 it is then!
I was thinking of doing the wilwood bbk a few weeks back, but i wasnt sure of the pad options available for them besides the BP10 and BP20, which i dont know what it compares to.

All Carbotechs in the XP series are noisy, dust a lot and don't function correctly at low temps. That doesn't mean you CAN'T DD them, their feel is superior to any hawk HPS / stoptech street.

Mu's go for about 180 for Brembo sizing and Carbotechs XP-12 are around $230. If you run a lower compound its cheaper. I order the Carbotechs through Alex Peng who is on XP-20!
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:56 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cambodianricer View Post
All Carbotechs in the XP series are noisy, dust a lot and don't function correctly at low temps. That doesn't mean you CAN'T DD them, their feel is superior to any hawk HPS / stoptech street.
XP10s cannot be run on the street (squeal EVERY TIME you stop) but XP8s are streetable. Carbotech has the following on their site:

Quote:
If the rotors and drums are in relatively good condition, meaning they are smooth, flat, with no visible cracks, deep scoring, distorted, and with no other visible damage; and you have ONLY had Carbotech brake pads on them, then they do not have to be resurfaced or replaced.
I'm going to try running the AX6 on the street, which looks to be very streetable, then swap out pads only for the track. Until now, I've done OEM rotors and HPS pads for the street, then I swap out pads and rotors for the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cambodianricer View Post
Mu's go for about 180 for Brembo sizing and Carbotechs XP-12 are around $230. If you run a lower compound its cheaper. I order the Carbotechs through Alex Peng who is on XP-20!
I just bought the front XP12 pads from KNS Brakes - they have them for $205 before shipping, and shipping was only another $12 to NY. Check them out, and mention that you heard about them from Liquid Dinosaur Racing.
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