Getting more serious into racing... Suggestions?

[jrickerm]

I pretty much agree with Guerra's ideas above, with a twist.

My plan is always to build an extremely fun to DD vehicle that is solid on the track/autox. I don't care about class competition much - I'm in my car for hundreds of hours per year as a DD, and only minutes on a track, so that's basically how my priorities get set. Lots of comments throughout threads in this section about "driver mods >> vehicle mods", which is true if you only care about being class competitive, but ignores those of us that really enjoy the build itself.

Mine is in SMF (supercharger, etc) and I might be getting spanked here and there, but who's having more fun than me the rest of the year? And who has the biggest freakin' grin on his face while listening to my ride scream like a demon at WOT? Don't get me wrong, I'm very committed to becoming a better driver, but there's more to the sport to me than limiting yourself to SCCA classes and avoiding the worthy experience of making upgrades. But I've been tweaking cars (mostly Hondas) for 30 years...

Good point about beating up on your primary transport, that is very true. I'll continue to do it anyway as long as she stays reliable (so far so good!), but if it gets iffy she might end up a dedicated track car after all, and then I get to start modding the next DD!! Nothing but upsides! except to the bank account...

[cambodianricer]

Most of my money goes towards tires and brakes

I flush/bleed my brakes often and I run either 0w-40 or 5w-40 oil.

[cambodianricer]

Originally Posted by mikeJstein

Down the road I'm looking to move into spec miata and other RWD cars. However, I don't have any experience in a RWD car. If I put another 6-10 track weekends on my si this summer, do these FWD driving skills translate well to a RWD car?

I know I can work on my general consistency, smoothness, and left-foot braking ... all of which can translate well to any car. But I'm at a point where I'm trying to decide what to do next (where to spend/not spend money)...

thanks for all the comments!

Driving a FF car fast = you HAVE to be smooth.

FF cars teachings you a bunch of things such as weight shift and what to do in a understeer/oversteer situation

[littlewing1208]

Star specs are a lot better than the Frenchy Super Sports. But if you over heat them from over braking and turning the wheel too much, you'll each the shoulders on a stock suspension macstrut car.

I'd focus on tires, alignment (get some bolts for the front and max out front camber, and brakes (cooling and track pads).

[GlobalCop]

These threads are the only ones I keep an eye on here lately. Helps me keep from wasting money on bling. Still got stock brakes and I'm planning to track this summer. Can't decide to just go with Stoptech BBK or take small steps with upgrades. Most likely, just due to finances, and not wanting to put off the tracking until I can afford the BBK, I'll just upgrade pads and fluid and take it a bit easy on the track. Ducting will be next step because at least I won't have to toss it out when I go BBK. I just hate putting money into upgrading my stock brakes if I'm going to go BBK down the road anyway.

I usually try to plan out upgrades to avoid having to uninstall upgrades too soon after installing them. I kind of regret getting the HFP catback, but I guess I've gotten a couple good years out of it and I can always sell stuff I take off I guess.

Do you guys have any vids of your tracking?

P.S. FYI, I'll be going to Heartland Park Topeka here in Kansas.

[Guerra]

Originally Posted by GlobalCop

These threads are the only ones I keep an eye on here lately. Helps me keep from wasting money on bling. Still got stock brakes and I'm planning to track this summer. Can't decide to just go with Stoptech BBK or take small steps with upgrades. Most likely, just due to finances, and not wanting to put off the tracking until I can afford the BBK, I'll just upgrade pads and fluid and take it a bit easy on the track. Ducting will be next step because at least I won't have to toss it out when I go BBK. I just hate putting money into upgrading my stock brakes if I'm going to go BBK down the road anyway.

I usually try to plan out upgrades to avoid having to uninstall upgrades too soon after installing them. I kind of regret getting the HFP catback, but I guess I've gotten a couple good years out of it and I can always sell stuff I take off I guess.

Have you thought about the Acura / Accord brake upgrade? It's like 400-500 bucks and gives a much better braking system, after this you'll be a long way off from needing a true BBK



Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

[bludragon]

A low cost and worth while mod would be front camber bolts. They should help with front tire wear and balance out the handling a bit.

FPro is nice, even on a stock car. The biggest benefit is throttle response, but it will add a little power between 4.5-6k rpm as well.

I do wonder about engine cooling and oil circulation upgrades for reliability. I read somewhere about using the s2000 oil pump. Is that worth it?
Is it worth getting a different sump, or other mod to prevent oil starvation under heavy cornering loads?

Regarding the fwd/rwd skill transfer. Mostly the same skills apply, the difference with rwd is you also get power oversteer, and have to be more careful with lift off oversteer since the rear wheels have engine braking applied. I think switching will primarily be a case of getting used to the new balance and limits of the different car.

[matchu865]

Originally Posted by GlobalCop

These threads are the only ones I keep an eye on here lately. Helps me keep from wasting money on bling. Still got stock brakes and I'm planning to track this summer. Can't decide to just go with Stoptech BBK or take small steps with upgrades. Most likely, just due to finances, and not wanting to put off the tracking until I can afford the BBK, I'll just upgrade pads and fluid and take it a bit easy on the track. Ducting will be next step because at least I won't have to toss it out when I go BBK. I just hate putting money into upgrading my stock brakes if I'm going to go BBK down the road anyway.

I usually try to plan out upgrades to avoid having to uninstall upgrades too soon after installing them. I kind of regret getting the HFP catback, but I guess I've gotten a couple good years out of it and I can always sell stuff I take off I guess.

Do you guys have any vids of your tracking?

P.S. FYI, I'll be going to Heartland Park Topeka here in Kansas.

Check out my youtube channel if you want some tracking videos, I've uploaded a few.

LostBoysProduction's Channel - YouTube

[eunos]

Here is my channel:

jigsawroadster's Channel - YouTube

I have not upgraded my brakes because of classing, but boy wish I could.

Ofcourse it depends on your experience, but my home track is where I did my race driver training, so I am very comfortable on it and its hard on brakes too.

I have melted my center caps out, the wheel weights melt off every trackday, and all the dust seals in the piston are gone. I have used HT10s (lasted two trackdays), Carbotech 10s (barely lasted one day, serious leading edge and came out in a crescent shape, as in the whole damn pad was no longer straight) and DTC60s (which are my favorite for braking feedback and torque, but also last only one day). I run that with rbf600 and temporary brake ducts that never last the full day. Still not enough.

I also recently traded up my traqmate data aquisition for the new AiM Solo DL. Pretty excited to try it out for autocross and Pacific Raceways late Feb.

As far as upgrades go, you really dont need anything but brakes and tires. After that, you are making the car faster, but thats by buying parts. Really, you can improve the car and your times by developing yourself in conjunction with data aquisition and tire pressures. But maybe Im saying that because I cant afford anything but tracktime haha

[cambodianricer]

BW Civic Si 2:09 Speedventures - YouTube

BW Civic Si 2:09 Speedventures - YouTube

Ignore the "bus stop" area LOL

I have the Acura TL-S calipers, Centric Blank, Carbotech XP-12 up fronts and HP+ in the rears with Motul RBF-600

[cambodianricer]

Originally Posted by eunos

Here is my channel:

jigsawroadster's Channel - YouTube

I have not upgraded my brakes because of classing, but boy wish I could.

Ofcourse it depends on your experience, but my home track is where I did my race driver training, so I am very comfortable on it and its hard on brakes too.

I have melted my center caps out, the wheel weights melt off every trackday, and all the dust seals in the piston are gone. I have used HT10s (lasted two trackdays), Carbotech 10s (barely lasted one day, serious leading edge and came out in a crescent shape, as in the whole damn pad was no longer straight) and DTC60s (which are my favorite for braking feedback and torque, but also last only one day). I run that with rbf600 and temporary brake ducts that never last the full day. Still not enough.

I also recently traded up my traqmate data aquisition for the new AiM Solo DL. Pretty excited to try it out for autocross and Pacific Raceways late Feb.

As far as upgrades go, you really dont need anything but brakes and tires. After that, you are making the car faster, but thats by buying parts. Really, you can improve the car and your times by developing yourself in conjunction with data aquisition and tire pressures. But maybe Im saying that because I cant afford anything but tracktime haha

No idea why your brake pads are lasting one day, but when I was on stock calipers the brake pads would only last 3 or 4 events.

Now with the bigger calipers, I can get about 6 events before I "should" replace them

[jrickerm]

Nice vid

Whasup with the red tape at 12 o'clock on the steering wheel?

[eunos]

Because my track is hard on brakes and I know how to drive, as stated. My rotors glow red at the end of braking for the front straight.

[cambodianricer]

Originally Posted by jrickerm

Nice vid

Whasup with the red tape at 12 o'clock on the steering wheel?

Just for me to see my steering inputs when I review the video.

Originally Posted by eunos

Because my track is hard on brakes and I know how to drive, as stated. My rotors glow red at the end of braking for the front straight.

I never said you didn't know how to drive.

I drove Autoclub Speedway and 130--> 40, 95-->40, 100--> 40, 100-->50 every lap didn't even eat up my brake pads.

[PainIs4ThaWeak]

Originally Posted by vf1si

HFP suspension would be a good starting point.

I'd guess suspension bushings and engine mounts would be the first to see wear from repeated abuse. Energy suspension RSX Type-S bushings(front only) and Innovative or Boomba engine mounts are popular upgrades. I'd recommend the more pricey Innovatives if you are a bit OCD about vibrations. I've been using the 75A stiffness and it's very forgiving on the DD.

I wouldn't recommend a harness unless you are going to at least put in some kind of roll bar. Crushed shoulders FTL.

You'll want to stick to OEM parts as much as possible for reliability so I'd recommend getting the CTR 5.06 Final Drive which will probably have you topping out 4th on some of the longer straights. If that's not enough you can also pick up the DC5R 4th and 5th gears.

A good Flashpro tune will help address your TQ issues.

Actually, the 5.06 is going to be shorter than the OEM 4.76 final drive. If he swapped to this, he'd see 5th gear sooner. (Unless of course that is what the OP wants)

IMHO, If I were in the market for a new final drive ring gear, I'd consider the course characteristics that I'd be driving on the most (as most of us don't have the money, or time, to be swapping out FDs for every event).

To elaborate, for tight courses, and/or courses with short straights, I would choose a higher ratio than stock FD. (Especially if I had an under-powered car).

For longer courses, with long sweepers, and/or long straights, I would choose a lower ratio than stock FD. (Especially if I had plenty of power.)

Hope that helps.


P.S. - I've broken an OEM mainshaft, OEM countershaft, OEM 2nd gear, and OEM final drive. Car dyno's a little over 300whp/200wtq.

P.P.S - Just remembered you still want it to be DD-able ... In which case, I recommend staying away from too high a ratio FD. (Never driven a 5.06 FD on the K series, so I can't comment on how aggressive it is.)

[cambodianricer]

5.06 final is just fine for daily unless you drive like 90mph on the freeway

[littlewing1208]

Mike,

'higher' gearing means smaller number and 'lower' gearing means higher number .

[eunos]

Originally Posted by cambodianricer

Just for me to see my steering inputs when I review the video.



I never said you didn't know how to drive.

I drove Autoclub Speedway and 130--> 40, 95-->40, 100--> 40, 100-->50 every lap didn't even eat up my brake pads.

While the deceleration speeds matter, its the rate you decelerate at that matters most. Im hard on the brakes, because thats where I can make up a lot of time. Im guessing, ACS is not that hard on brakes, much like Portland. The track that destroys my brakes is well known locally for eating brakes. Also, if you find some of the old fast guys who has been tracking these cars a while ago, they all learned quickly that no pad/fluid on OEM brakes survives a fast pace 20 minute session. I did not mean to come off as defensive and in retrospect thats definitely what my post sounds like.

[PainIs4ThaWeak]

Originally Posted by littlewing1208

Mike,

'higher' gearing means smaller number and 'lower' gearing means higher number .

Edit: Wait a second... No it doesn't.

http://www.teammfactory.com/gear-calculator

Throw the OEM ratios in there, then compare with a 5.06 FD. (Hint: Use the drop downs)

Think about it - if your wheels spin at a rate of 5.06:1 they'll spin faster than if at a ratio of 4.76:1, and effectively get the engine to the redline threshold sooner, and at lower mph.

[cambodianricer]

Originally Posted by eunos

While the deceleration speeds matter, its the rate you decelerate at that matters most. Im hard on the brakes, because thats where I can make up a lot of time. Im guessing, ACS is not that hard on brakes, much like Portland. The track that destroys my brakes is well known locally for eating brakes. Also, if you find some of the old fast guys who has been tracking these cars a while ago, they all learned quickly that no pad/fluid on OEM brakes survives a fast pace 20 minute session. I did not mean to come off as defensive and in retrospect thats definitely what my post sounds like.

Oh it's cool,

Yeah, ACS is really hard on the brakes, I would only be able to do like 4 laps before I had major brake fade. Crack rotors and crumbling Project Mu Club Racer.

I got burned when I stood like 3 or 4 away from my brakes.