Autocross Course Design Thoughts?

[civicforall]

Just watched this vid. Looks like the 'Vette lost the car so it's def a driver error but wonder if that curb wasn't too close to the spin zone?
One Hot Lap: How NOT to Run an Autocross Event!! (UPDATED)

[patinum]

That didn't look like a particularly tight or fast section, so I don't see how the driver lost control. I mean, the curb isn't far but it's not like it was a high speed decreasing radius turn.

[aero528]

That's terrible. I really hope the driver was ok. That's clearly not an scca club, or at least not a well regulated club. No pointer cones, poorly placed track workers, no flags(seriously, WTF!) and a very small lot. It astonishes me that there were still cars running. That's an instant stop in most good clubs.

It may not be a fast section, but it was a salom. I've seen a vette do exactly the same thing on a salom right in front of me, but he stopped because we gave the guys enough room.

[duramacr]

That guy wasn't even pushing that car, he drives like a rookie. Thats why I don't autocross
I roadrace. Autocrossing is weak and you don't pick up enough speed to make it exciting.
In roadracing you have a chance to pass a superior car which makes things worth it.

[patinum]

Originally Posted by duramacr

That guy wasn't even pushing that car, he drives like a rookie. Thats why I don't autocross
I roadrace. Autocrossing is weak and you don't pick up enough speed to make it exciting.
In roadracing you have a chance to pass a superior car which makes things worth it.

I couldn't disagree more.
(I'm assuming you HPDE type track days and not wheel to wheel racing. If you do mean W2W, not everything applies).

1) "he drives like a rookie" - There will be rookies anywhere you race - everyone has to start off somewhere
2) "Autocrossing is weak" - Autocross is more technical than driving on a track. The focus on the proper line, connecting turns, proper entry and exit speeds, etc. becomes so much more important and therefore teaches good driving habits. I've met good track guys that suck at autox, but I've never met a good autoxer that sucks at track driving. While driving on track is very technical in itself, you can get away with a lot more. Off by half a foot on track? Lose maybe 1/100th of a second. Off by half a foot on autox? Possible DNF.
3) "you don't pick up enough speed to make it exciting" - Speed is relative. If you want to go fast, go in an airplane. Coming into a slaloming at 40 mph is as exhilarating, if not more, than diving 100mph on a straight. Not saying that the actual speed isn't exciting, but maybe if you aren't excited by autox speeds, you're not going fast enough.
4) "In roadracing you have a chance to pass a superior car which makes things worth it." - In autox you can get a better time than superior cars. Same thrill. And, assuming you're not talking about W2W racing, autox is a competition - meaning there's set rules - so you know that when you beat someone, you beat someone.

Now I'm not one of those guys that says autox is better than track driving. In fact, recently I've been tracking more than autox. But autox definitely has it's place and I wouldn't be near as good of a driver at the track if I hadn't had a solid foundation of autox.

[gliberios]

Originally Posted by patinum

I couldn't disagree more.
(I'm assuming you HPDE type track days and not wheel to wheel racing. If you do mean W2W, not everything applies).

1) "he drives like a rookie" - There will be rookies anywhere you race - everyone has to start off somewhere
2) "Autocrossing is weak" - Autocross is more technical than driving on a track. The focus on the proper line, connecting turns, proper entry and exit speeds, etc. becomes so much more important and therefore teaches good driving habits. I've met good track guys that suck at autox, but I've never met a good autoxer that sucks at track driving. While driving on track is very technical in itself, you can get away with a lot more. Off by half a foot on track? Lose maybe 1/100th of a second. Off by half a foot on autox? Possible DNF.
3) "you don't pick up enough speed to make it exciting" - Speed is relative. If you want to go fast, go in an airplane. Coming into a slaloming at 40 mph is as exhilarating, if not more, than diving 100mph on a straight. Not saying that the actual speed isn't exciting, but maybe if you aren't excited by autox speeds, you're not going fast enough.
4) "In roadracing you have a chance to pass a superior car which makes things worth it." - In autox you can get a better time than superior cars. Same thrill. And, assuming you're not talking about W2W racing, autox is a competition - meaning there's set rules - so you know that when you beat someone, you beat someone.

Now I'm not one of those guys that says autox is better than track driving. In fact, recently I've been tracking more than autox. But autox definitely has it's place and I wouldn't be near as good of a driver at the track if I hadn't had a solid foundation of autox.

+1!

[Mikey6p]

Horrible course design. No idea why they were in that tiny lot, there's a far larger lot at that venue that is typically used for AutoX

[bsc70808cc]

Originally Posted by patinum

...autox definitely has it's place and I wouldn't be near as good of a driver at the track if I hadn't had a solid foundation of autox.

As I enter my third year of autocross I am reminded about the satisfaction of thought that hp means little when offset by driver skill or lack of skill. There is no question that a strong background in Solo event driving can significantly improve one's skill on a open track.

Just like drag racing and track, autocross will have its place.