Second AutoX event. - 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum
8thCivic.com

Go Back   8th Generation Honda Civic Forum > Honda Civic Technical > Autocross & Sanctioned Drag Racing

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-22-2011, 05:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
SportInjected1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baton Rouge/Lafayette
Age: 30
Posts: 7
Jonathan
Thumbs up Second AutoX event.

6 runs at Chenault Air Park in Lake Charles, LA with the SoWeLa region SCCA. Best run of the day is at 7:42. I critiqued them all but if there is anything I missed a little friendly constructive criticism is always apreciated! Be sure to max out the picture quality and give it some sound. Thanks for watching!


Last edited by SportInjected1; 08-23-2011 at 12:13 PM. Reason: spelling
SportInjected1 is offline  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-22-2011, 09:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
hukdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 314
Your 3rd and final run were probably your best.

Couple of things.

1. Handwork/placement is much better although you're way tense up top and it shows with your wheel work. You tend to snap the wheel into the turning angle you desire for the corner instead or progressively rotating the wheel into that location. Essentially you are turning the wheel faster than your car can react, you need to slow down your handwork. Did you notice that by the end of your run your tires are pretty much done and you are sliding all over the place up front? A big part of the reason you are over heating your tires is due to you exceeding the proper slip angle of the tire by a very large margin and the tire has to slide and then grab to change the direction of the vehicle. All that tire sliding adds up quick and your tires exceed their optimum operating temperature. The best way to combat this problem is to learn to progressively turn the wheel slower and start turning for the corner sooner.

2. Your throttle control is a bit too on/off and nothing in between. Being smooth on the throttle on a FWD car is one of the most important things you can do, even more so than a rear wheel drive car imo. Work on making sure to focus on your throttle work every time you drive, even on the street. I believe it was run 4 where you were blipping your throttle going around that decreasing radius left hander, don't do this. This will never be fast in any corner.

All in all it appears you learned throughout the day pretty well. Your 6th run was much better, hands moved slower and your throttle work was a bit better. Were you running on the star specs? Did you get camber bolts?
hukdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 12:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
SportInjected1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baton Rouge/Lafayette
Age: 30
Posts: 7
Jonathan
Quote:
Originally Posted by hukdizzle View Post
Your 3rd and final run were probably your best.

Couple of things.

1. Handwork/placement is much better although you're way tense up top and it shows with your wheel work. You tend to snap the wheel into the turning angle you desire for the corner instead or progressively rotating the wheel into that location. Essentially you are turning the wheel faster than your car can react, you need to slow down your handwork. Did you notice that by the end of your run your tires are pretty much done and you are sliding all over the place up front? A big part of the reason you are over heating your tires is due to you exceeding the proper slip angle of the tire by a very large margin and the tire has to slide and then grab to change the direction of the vehicle. All that tire sliding adds up quick and your tires exceed their optimum operating temperature. The best way to combat this problem is to learn to progressively turn the wheel slower and start turning for the corner sooner.

2. Your throttle control is a bit too on/off and nothing in between. Being smooth on the throttle on a FWD car is one of the most important things you can do, even more so than a rear wheel drive car imo. Work on making sure to focus on your throttle work every time you drive, even on the street. I believe it was run 4 where you were blipping your throttle going around that decreasing radius left hander, don't do this. This will never be fast in any corner.

All in all it appears you learned throughout the day pretty well. Your 6th run was much better, hands moved slower and your throttle work was a bit better. Were you running on the star specs? Did you get camber bolts?
Just star specs, decided against camber bolts due to bad roads around here and driving so much. Im still having understeer problems and wandering the best way to combat this.. am I more in need of entering corners slower or perhaps some type of upgrade? It was mainly on the decreasing-radius.
SportInjected1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 12:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
testify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Showa > Bor Chuan
Posts: 11,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportInjected1 View Post
Just star specs, decided against camber bolts due to bad roads around here and driving so much. Im still having understeer problems and wandering the best way to combat this.. am I more in need of entering corners slower or perhaps some type of upgrade? It was mainly on the decreasing-radius.
The understeer in that video is because you are yanking the wheel and mashing the throttle at the same time. You can't do that in a FWD car. As you apply the throttle, you have to unwind the wheel in a corner.

Your car can do three things: brake, turn, accelerate. But it can only do one thing at a time (for the most part).

Work on just lifting in the corners, when you reach the apex of a corner, you should not have your foot on the gas or the brake. You should have taken car of the braking before you got there, and shouldn't apply the gass until you are exiting.



edit: working anymore on setup is not going to reduce understeer, you've got to work on the driver mod to rectify that.

Last edited by testify; 08-23-2011 at 12:23 PM.
testify is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 01:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
littlewing1208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Age: 30
Posts: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by testify View Post

Your car can do three things: brake, turn, accelerate. But it can only do one thing at a time (for the most part).
It can do 2 things at a time, but only up to 100% of the grip of the tires. If 100% of your tires grip is being used for longitudinal acceleration (ie threshold braking), there is 0% grip left for lateral grip (ie turning). Similarly for accelerating and turning. That's why you want to ease on the throttle coming out of the turn as you unwind the wheel. Every iterative bit of unwinding the wheel gives up lateral grip usage to allow for more longitudinal grip usage such that lat_percentage + long_percentage <= 100%.

Trail braking into a turn takes advantage of this because you brake late and lightly ease of the brake as you initiate your steering input so that there is still load transfer on the front tires as opposed static loading.
littlewing1208 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 01:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
hukdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportInjected1 View Post
Just star specs, decided against camber bolts due to bad roads around here and driving so much. Im still having understeer problems and wandering the best way to combat this.. am I more in need of entering corners slower or perhaps some type of upgrade? It was mainly on the decreasing-radius.
Read over number one in my first response, if you are not familiar with the terms look up slip angle and read over the topic from a couple of different view points. You are overheating your tires because you are working them faster than the car can react, near the end of your runs your tires have exceeded their optimum grip temperature and can no longer attain maximum grip due to all the sliding. Slow your handwork down and work on your throttle work. As testify said you have to apply throttle as you unwind the wheel on track out, you can't snap the throttle down.

Also do yourself a favor and get the camber bolts and get your car aligned with 0' toe F/R and maximum negative camber up front. If you autocross your car at least once a month you will not see any adverse wear on the tires. You WILL see adverse tire wear the way you are driving with the lack of negative camber currently though. You will get about 60-70 runs out of those star specs at best before you cord off the outside shoulder and that's only if you rotate the wheels/tires after every event. Get the camber bolts and dial in maximum negative camber in the front, rotate the wheels after every event or 10 runs. You are not running the stock class so there is no reason not to run the camber bolts. They will give you better tire life and better handling.

The big misconception is that camber kills tires. Camber does not kill tires, toe kills tires. If you have the car setup with 0' toe F/R and and max negative camber you will get great tire life. The inside of the tire may cup a little bit but if you go to an autocross event and work the outside contact patch you will even them out.
hukdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 03:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
SportInjected1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baton Rouge/Lafayette
Age: 30
Posts: 7
Jonathan
Thanks, this all makes a ton of sense. I have read 2 books already and its all adding up with the seat time. Im really glad I got the GoPro its gonna help me get better way faster with all your advice. Hand movement and slip angle will be my number one focus going into apex's next event. Did you guys like the in car view better than the outside driver side view?

Im definitely going for camber bolts now. I have got to work on smoother throttle on and off as well. I was stomping it the whole time for the most part. I never once thought about smooth depress and release at that entire event..

I have a Stg 2 clutch n flywheel ready to install and ordered a GearX 5.08 final drive last week and Im shooting for it all to go in this coming Sunday. I know im gonna have to break this in and relearn the throttle with the extra kick after the break in. Hopefully, next event, all this advice can bump me further up the ranks. Next up is coilovers! Any advice on brands? Not looking to break the bank.. but wanting a solid set.

Last edited by SportInjected1; 08-23-2011 at 03:45 PM. Reason: spelling
SportInjected1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 04:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
littlewing1208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Age: 30
Posts: 897
Great book:

Amazon.com: Fast Car Physics (9780801898235): Chuck Edmondson: Books Amazon.com: Fast Car Physics (9780801898235): Chuck Edmondson: Books



Coilovers: Redshift koni based. There is a used set in the FS section for $2k I believe (500/1000 lb/in rates) with race series konis.

Last edited by littlewing1208; 08-23-2011 at 04:04 PM.
littlewing1208 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 04:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
hukdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportInjected1 View Post
Thanks, this all makes a ton of sense. I have read 2 books already and its all adding up with the seat time. Im really glad I got the GoPro its gonna help me get better way faster with all your advise. Hand movement and slip angle will be my number one focus going into apex's next event. Did you guys like the in car view better than the outside driver side view?

Im definitely going for camber bolts now. I have got to work on smoother throttle on and off as well. I was stomping it the whole time for the most part. I never once thought about smooth depress and release at that entire event..

I have a Stg 2 clutch n flywheel ready to install and ordered a GearX 5.08 final drive last week and Im shooting for it all to go in this coming Sunday. I know im gonna have to break this in and relearn the throttle with the extra kick after the break in. Hopefully, next event, all this advice can bump me further up the ranks. Next up is coilovers! Any advice on brands? Not looking to break the bank.. but wanting a solid set.
In car view is exponentially more informative. It is closer to what the driver sees and you can actually see how the driver is physically moving. Being able to see your right leg, and arms will help you identify where you were smooth and where you were not smooth. Of course there are other ways to know this but the more information the better. I wish I had the GoPro HD for the FOV but my cheap aiptek HD camera with a 15 wide angle lens on it does pretty well, it just doesn't have the FOV of the gopro so I cannot get my arms into the view.

Throttle control is extremely important and fortunately you can practice this everywhere you go. Believe it or not a week before I have an event, everywhere I drive I make sure to keep my hand position proper and be and smooth as possible with braking, gear changes, acceleration. I can't do it all the time but I proactively make my self do all of those things at least a week before an event. When you get to the event it all becomes second nature. Focus on your hand positions and posture, make sure to relax your shoulders and arms, focus on your brake to throttle switch over and being extremely smooth going either way, focus on making your gear changes seemless. The biggest thing you are attempting to accomplish here is the muscle memory and finesse to be able to do these things.

Only one option for coil overs if you want a properly built performance oriented coil over for less than $3000.

06 Civic Susp Packages

Get the KONI sport coilover package built by Chris, it will run you around $1200.
hukdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 04:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
hukdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewing1208 View Post
Great book:

Amazon.com: Fast Car Physics (9780801898235): Chuck Edmondson: Books



Coilovers: Redshift koni based. There is a used set in the FS section for $2k I believe (500/1000 lb/in rates) with race series konis.
Whoa, if I still cared about running my SI I would probably buy those.... I bet he would take $1800 shipped. And at that price you would be stealing some incredible coilovers.
hukdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 04:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
littlewing1208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Age: 30
Posts: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by hukdizzle View Post
Whoa, if I still cared about running my SI I would probably buy those.... I bet he would take $1800 shipped. And at that price you would be stealing some incredible coilovers.
They also have ASR camber plates .
littlewing1208 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2011, 05:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
testify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Showa > Bor Chuan
Posts: 11,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by hukdizzle View Post
Whoa, if I still cared about running my SI I would probably buy those.... I bet he would take $1800 shipped. And at that price you would be stealing some incredible coilovers.
x2
testify is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AutoX event in Havelock, NC tuner student South 2 10-14-2010 03:44 PM
saw an autox event today! mrjre42 Autocross & Sanctioned Drag Racing 2 08-17-2008 09:22 PM
Pics and vid from an Autox event this pass sunday 954K20_SI Autocross & Sanctioned Drag Racing 20 09-09-2007 09:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:39 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
copyright 8thcivic.com - all rights reserved