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Old 04-03-2011, 02:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Autocross PAX/RTP thread w/ interesting findings

So in lieu of the yearly 2011 Pax change which was a little harsh on GS and FSP among others, and easier on a few others, I did a little autocross nerd math here at work on a slow day. Just for the record for those that are learning autocross, the Pax system is done totally voluntarilly by a fellow named Rick Ruth (whom I've never met, but cheers to him for taking the time and energy to do this) and is basically the way to gauge the overall performance of cars of various classes during an autocross with a numerical handicap system or multiplier if you will. Here's more info: Pax Index

Personally, I'm not one of those people that gripes and moans about how our GS Civics compare versus other classes based on the Pax system and it's fluxuation relative to all the other classes yearly. It's just a hobby, and truthfully, Pax really doesn't matter, especially at larger events when you have a healthy class with many folks competing with you based on raw time. At local events it's a fun tool, but really isn't too indicative because many folks' cars aren't really 'prepped' as others. A great example of this would be competitors racing in a street tire class with a Pax that usually is established based on the usage of race tires.

Anyhow, something that is interesting is the timespread between the 8th Gen Civic Si's two closest stock classes: the faster DS class and the slower HS class.

If the Si ran a 60.0 second course with it's .809 Pax:

The DS Type R or Mini Cooper S (@.817 Pax) has to run about a 59.41 (~.6 seconds quicker)

The HS Mini Cooper S or Mazda 3 (@.791 Pax) has to run about 61.37 (~1.3 seconds slower)

Interesting stuff. What's neat to me is that the R only has to run about a 1/2 second faster and the HS'er can be an almost whooping 1.5 seconds behind. Personally, I thought the R would be more of a spread and the slower HS cars would be less.

Any thoughts on these ramblings?

-Matt
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well, it looks like Jim Feinberg threw it down in an HS mini and was quicker than the GS winner this year (in a Celica GT with no VVT no less) by over 0.7! Wow! It looks like the SRT-5's and Genesis didn't show up to fight.

Great stuff at Solo Nats and I hope to go next year.

-Matt
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Haha, I just commented about this in the action picture thread . My money is on the Mini being in GS in the next year or two .
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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ban all minis. let them start their own club. problem solved. same goes for the miatas
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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ban all minis. let them start their own club. problem solved. same goes for the miatas
Get rid of the EF Si's while your at it (though I guess they might actually do that next year)

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Haha, I just commented about this in the action picture thread . My money is on the Mini being in GS in the next year or two .
How does that make sense if the HS mini is already faster than the entire GS field?

Last edited by testify; 09-02-2011 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Get rid of the EF Si's while your at it (though I guess they might actually do that next year)



How does that make sense if the HS mini is already faster than the entire GS field?
true true
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It's worse than that... Matt mentioned Mini Cooper S in HS. Only the N/A Minis are allowed in HS. With years of development and a slew of good drivers, the HS Minis are fast.

I hope that Matt and other fast Si drivers will make the trip to Lincoln next year to see how they'll fare in GS.

For those who didn't follow Nationals this week, a new trend started in one Stock class. Matthew Braun changes tires between EVERY RUN in Super Stock. FOUR sets of slightly scrubbed Hoosiers may become the norm for people who want to compete seriously.
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Get rid of the EF Si's while your at it (though I guess they might actually do that next year)



How does that make sense if the HS mini is already faster than the entire GS field?
There is no where else for the NA mini to go other than GS. Other GS drivers just need to step it up. My point was the NA mini is not an HS car.
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Old 09-03-2011, 11:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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There is no where else for the NA mini to go other than GS. Other GS drivers just need to step it up. My point was the NA mini is not an HS car.
Send 'em to DS
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Send 'em to DS
this
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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And send the MCS to CS while your at it :0

I hear that all classes are going to shift over one letter and they will make another class that comes after HS for next year. So really, the na mini might stay in HS, we will go to HS along witht he rest of GS, all the really slow HS cars will bump to the new class, and SS will be full of some of the new really fast cars that have been developed lately.

Last edited by testify; 09-03-2011 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 09-18-2011, 10:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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There's been solid proposal to move anything around in Stock classes unlike Street Prepared. The Uber Stock that gets mentioned doesn't look like it will happen.

Moving the Minis out of HS to GS does make sense. Probably should have been done when the Mini S's were moved last year. Considering the HS mini have almost 10 years of development and the same top drivers for nearly the last 5 years, it's no wonder that they are fast and competitive in their own class. GS is still searching for THE CAR since the Mini S is no longer there. Bill Loring has been in that Celica since the flood. Others have been popping up in SRT4s and ACR Neons, but what was thought to be a class killer, the Genesis 2.0t stayed home. The Civic can hold its own in such a wide open field.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I was talking to Feinberg yesterday at our event. I told him if he continues driving the HS Mini like that and killing the G stock field, that the other H stocker guys will be pissed when they put the N/A Mini in G stock .
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