Hi all!
I started tracking my '07 Si Sedan 4 years ago and quickly realized that the stock brake setup was easily the weakest link for good track performance (okay, behind having a good set of tires). I am writing this thread to share my experiences as my skill progressed and I demanded more and more from the car. I wish I had a better guide as I got into the hobby... so here one is...
My first resource was a fantastic thread by Moose: Brake Options
Now, let me explain the problem with the stock brakes. On the street, they're fantastic! You will never have any issue engaging the ABS, and they will not heat up with any realistic street driving (even pushing). The problem reveals when you take your car out to a real track and start really pushing for LONG sessions (anything over than 10min). Further, at these extremes, almost all the weight, and consequently braking, will be on the front axle. The rear brakes are great to slap a set of Hawk HPS pads on and forget about for years. However the fronts...
The stock front brake setup will overheat every time. Here are the main contributors:
And the final, and crucial restriction of the stock setup is the inadequate thermal mass of the stock rotors/calipers. The Acura TSX '06 generation has = diameter rotors, but are much thicker with 26% larger pads and calipers. This adds a ton of additional thermal mass to manage larger heat inputs. Again, this is only needed on the front axle.
To complete the story, I had quite an adventure in figuring out a high performance AND economical brake pad. I would say this is equally important as switching to the TSX rotors. This is my trail:
To sum the pad journey up... If you're really pushing the car hard for extended sessions, get a pad that is rated for 1500-1600F! With the small thermal mass of the brake setup, combined with the extremely front loaded brake dist., you will need the added temperature. I think this is the main reason why the first sets of pads only lasted 2 weekends... These are great pad companies, but our car needs a more temperature tolerant compound than I chose. This is also why flushing your brake fluid with a quality DOT4 fluid is essential, otherwise you will put your foot to the floor... not good. The TSX swap is a great idea as well: cheap, easy, works great.
Anyway, I hope this helps people out! I know it's kinda late, but I wish I could have read this coming into the track hobby. I am proud to say that I am running my little civic in the experienced run groups with the Audi and BMWCCA's, and still passing corvette's, porsche's, and the occasional lotus... I even have a picture of me lapping an R8
track shots from a year ago.
Let me know if you all have any questions!
-Mike
I started tracking my '07 Si Sedan 4 years ago and quickly realized that the stock brake setup was easily the weakest link for good track performance (okay, behind having a good set of tires). I am writing this thread to share my experiences as my skill progressed and I demanded more and more from the car. I wish I had a better guide as I got into the hobby... so here one is...
My first resource was a fantastic thread by Moose: Brake Options
- This gave me a good idea of the parts available, but didn't give me a clear idea of what I needed to track the car
- Best point to take away from the article: drilled and slotted rotors are all show... don't waste your money if you're going to be pushing your brakes. Personally, I've seen a ton of people with cracked rotors because of this!
Now, let me explain the problem with the stock brakes. On the street, they're fantastic! You will never have any issue engaging the ABS, and they will not heat up with any realistic street driving (even pushing). The problem reveals when you take your car out to a real track and start really pushing for LONG sessions (anything over than 10min). Further, at these extremes, almost all the weight, and consequently braking, will be on the front axle. The rear brakes are great to slap a set of Hawk HPS pads on and forget about for years. However the fronts...
The stock front brake setup will overheat every time. Here are the main contributors:
- The stock pads will literally disintegrate as temperatures moderately heat up. (I'll get to this later)
- Stock DOT3 brake fluid sucks, replace with a quality DOT4 fluid and flush before each track session (ATE Super Blue my favorite, Motul is a better alternative for more $$)
- Stock dust shields restrict air movement around the rotors. A dremel tool will make quick work of them (there's an article around somewhere about that)
And the final, and crucial restriction of the stock setup is the inadequate thermal mass of the stock rotors/calipers. The Acura TSX '06 generation has = diameter rotors, but are much thicker with 26% larger pads and calipers. This adds a ton of additional thermal mass to manage larger heat inputs. Again, this is only needed on the front axle.
To complete the story, I had quite an adventure in figuring out a high performance AND economical brake pad. I would say this is equally important as switching to the TSX rotors. This is my trail:
- Stock pads were great my first weekend, but it was clear that my last session was murdering them as I pushed harder.
- I switched to Hawk HP+ in fronts HPS rears for the next track weekend which lasted 2 weekends, barely.
- Cobalt Friction XR3 - Good pad feel, but ended up chipping under hard braking and ABS. Pads lasted 2 weekends
- Hawk Blue. GREAT feel, but brake dust eats paint when wet and killed a set of brake rotors in 3 track days.
- Carbotech XP10: Great feel, wear rate, and easy on the rotors. BUT the pad material is mounted to the backing plate using pins, which actually use up half of the usable pad depth! not worth the cost! Lasted 2 weekends
- Hawk HT-10's ... YES!!! 2 weekends down with ~75% pad remaining. No noticeable rotor wear. Great feel, never fades either.
To sum the pad journey up... If you're really pushing the car hard for extended sessions, get a pad that is rated for 1500-1600F! With the small thermal mass of the brake setup, combined with the extremely front loaded brake dist., you will need the added temperature. I think this is the main reason why the first sets of pads only lasted 2 weekends... These are great pad companies, but our car needs a more temperature tolerant compound than I chose. This is also why flushing your brake fluid with a quality DOT4 fluid is essential, otherwise you will put your foot to the floor... not good. The TSX swap is a great idea as well: cheap, easy, works great.
Anyway, I hope this helps people out! I know it's kinda late, but I wish I could have read this coming into the track hobby. I am proud to say that I am running my little civic in the experienced run groups with the Audi and BMWCCA's, and still passing corvette's, porsche's, and the occasional lotus... I even have a picture of me lapping an R8
track shots from a year ago.
Let me know if you all have any questions!
-Mike