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Originally Posted by spinner

What exactly are you trying to convince yourself of?

I don't require much in the way of convincing; I've been around long enough to see this kind of thing come and go. I'm just pointing out that you are not comparing apples to apples when you compare hybrids to conventional vehicles, just like when they were comparing full-size 80hp diesel cars to real cars in the 70s and 80s.

Originally Posted by spinner

Honda leads the way in vehicle efficiency and if they can't do better, while still meeting safety and emissions standards, then no-one can.

What you fail to grasp it that the production costs of hybrids are heavily subsidised by the federal government. Honda could and would do more if some of those subsidies were not conditioned on a hybrid powertrain.

Originally Posted by spinner

Any ways, if someone gets better-than-rated fuel economy in a regular Civic, then they will also get better-than-rated fuel economy in the Hybrid. If you can't see the benefit of the hybrid, then you're another doubting Thomas. There are a million excuses at your disposal. No-one can -- and no-one has to -- convince you otherwise. Perhaps when gasoline is at $7/gal. you will see things in a different context, and postulating about what could be will take a back seat to the urgency of what is available.

You entirely miss the point here, again. What is available is simply a product of the subsidies provided makers of hybrid cars. Without that, the hybrids would not be available, $7/gallon or not.

My other point here was that is people were willing to settle for gas-powered civic with as low a performance envelope as has the civic hybrid, much of the hybrid's 'advantage' would dissappear. You claim all this increased efficiency, but in reality all they have produced is a less powerful car that gets better mileage. That's not an increase in efficiency, for if it was the car would perform at a similar level and get significantly better mileage. As gas continues to spiral in cost the idea of a less powerful gas-powered car will become more palatable. An do remember, the Civic Hybrid was the slowest car tested by car and driver last year. The slowest.

Originally Posted by spinner

Word on the street is that the 2008 Civic Hybrids are sold out for the year.

No huge surprise, many are as technically naive as you and most don't mind the fact the tax dollars are financing the majority of their hybrid purchase.

And why don't you harp some more about the hybrid weighing as much as an Si? Oh, that's right, it's because the statement is meaningless once you appreciate even the most casual technical realities inherent in these vehicles.